96redLT4

these models are being released? They don't even wait for the car shows! This must be the VW influence and the desire to crank out twice as many cars. I can't wait to see the 25 or 30 special editions that will be right around the corner.
J

Alan Smithee

Part of VW's plan for lofty short-term sales goals.

I don't see how it could be good for the marque long-term, but it is what it is...

tcsracing1

If buyers know a certain model is indeed coming they might be inclined to hold out a little longer for it. (i.e; Turbo) Whereas, if buyers didnt know when to expect their desired model, they might be suaded to look at an alternative brand which is not what VW wants.

will be interesting to see if it works or not.

Carlo_Carrera

I have to admit I prefer that the models be released at this new increased pace. I have always thought that waiting around for the end of a model's lifespan to get the ultimate version to be annoying.

It is looking now that you will be able to the top of line edition right off the bat. Imagine if you were able to buy the 997 GTS six years ago and then trade it in for the 991 GTS next year.

Carrera GT

It might turn out that we can look back on this post in three years and find it underestimated the number of models. VW is going to water down the soup and slice the ham paper thin.

As for this almost "surprise" launch of what should be the flagship model, it seems to me the high end of the product line is aimed at "China Russia Middle East" (CRiME) markets. Emerging markets are more lucrative than the existing (economically crippled) markets. As Porsche heads north on the price compass, out of the shallow waters and into deep sea fishing, the US market becomes a business of volume and leveraging the existing sales and service franchise infrastructure. VW has all but mastered the business of branding the same car any number of ways and keeping the customers with the highest profitability at the appropriate echelon.

I'd expect to see more Porsche models, just as we started to see with the mind-boggling plethora of 997's. I'd expect 0more frequent updates, so-called "de-contented" models (fewer standard features in order to maintain profitability at somewhat lower average selling prices) and price exploration. Porsche will presumably be making calculated risks such as paying fines on CAFE rather than delivering frugal engines, or simply not investing the R&D to meet DOT/EPA regulations (or things like just plain not making a sport bucket seat until it plays into their game plan, regardless of customer sentiment.)

There was a launch of the Turbos in Russia. Surely this would "normally" (whatever that is) have occurred at a prestigious auto show in a world famous city that has its name printed on perfume and designer labels, but now a "mere" quarter million dollar Turbo cannot be allowed to distract from major announcements, so it's unveiled on a "pop-up stage" with all the production value of a small boy waving a smoke machine and hitting "play" on the boombox with some dubstep vibrating your teeth ... : )

Riz

The turbo S used to be a special model. It was usually introduced at the end of the regular turbo run. Production was a couple of years. Porsche is now introducing them simultaneously. The last special turbo S is the 997.2 version. The car that really broke into the under 3 sec 0-60 mph, and mid to low 6 sec for 0-100 mph.

kosmo

yup

Hussain

It's sort of a Catch-22, some owners will wait til the final year of production for the Turbo S, while others will be early adopters and may or may not upgrade later. What they are doing now is gambling that the people who normally hold-out buy now instead of waiting. I guess they will continue to upgrade the models throughout the years until the new model (whatever comes after 991) is released. If you look at the writing on the wall, this has largely been the direction that they have been traveling in, and now some of us are surprised that we have arrived at this destination.

If memory serves correctly this is the path that they have taken:

996 Turbo 2001-2004 largely unchanged except for small updates such as bumperette deletion, different cupholders, updated PCM, X50, etc...

996 Turbo S 2005 One year limited run with all the goodies

997 Turbo 2007-2012, the first two years were mostly the same, 2009 saw a PCM update and then 2010 saw a model revision with a completely different engine, which had not been done in any recent turbo history.

997 Turbo S 2011-2012 the first two year run of a special edition model in recent years was arguably a test to see how the market place received a PDK only car, as well as a less limited special edition. The results were that the mass still bought the PDK only car, and there was no widespread panic of non-limited Turbo S builds.

So that brings us to where we are now:

991 Turbo and Turbo S simultaneous reveal with substantial price difference, PDK only.

It's not hard to see how we got here. I agree with most of you that it would have been nice to have a M/T option I'm a die-hard enthusiast myself, but the truth is that if you want to buy a Porsche 911 Turbo these days it's PDK only, just like their main competitors Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc.

There are still other choices for M/T if you really want such as Audi R8 etc, but the next wave of cars will most likely see the death of the manual across the lot of our beloved cars.

Carrera GT

Thanks. Good write-up. It seems to me, Porsche used "Turbo S" in the Cayenne and Panamera, without them being finale models, thereby diluting the significance of "Turbo S" to just a matter of marketing: always have at least one item in the store with a jaw-droppingly high price tag on it. It will help sell every other thing in the store just by comparison. And if someone actually buys that item, all the better!

I'm reluctant to say it in a public forum because I'd like to buy one and I wouldn't want to encourage competition, but I think the '09 GT2 is the pick of the litter. The '09 Turbo was still a Mezger lineage, but at least on paper, the 991 Turbo is a new era of heavy cars. The then seemingly heavy GT2 could at least be given a trip to the fat farm and with some aftermarket knowledge, it's surely capable of the 600+ neddies of the GT2RS, so that makes for some fun cog swapping and enough oomph to get around all the damn passenger-drivers in the 991 GT3's that will be clogging up tracks this time next year ... : )

Hammer911

"It seems to me, Porsche used "Turbo S" in the Cayenne and Panamera, without them being finale models, thereby diluting the significance of "Turbo S" to just a matter of marketing: always have at least one item in the store with a jaw-droppingly high price tag on it. It will help sell every other thing in the store just by comparison. And if someone actually buys that item, all the better!"

to your point...Check this out at my dealer's showroom: $214k Panamera Turbo S
http://www.stevinsonimports.com/new/...53abdc8c8b.htm

Hussain

They put a front plate on that!

Carrera GT

That thing is set for a 1 year, 50% depreciation. I don't mind driving Porsches at $2K/month total costs, but at $10K/month, far out.

Here's a 2012 Panamera Turbo S with 11K miles at a dealer for $145K. What did the owner get for trade-in? $120K? I've got a stomach for losses on playing with cars, but $100K loss in 12 months for a family four door? ... I'd be puking all over the place. : )

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-...sting=47674568

I have to imagine the used Panamera Turbo S at closer to say $125K is a lot of fun in the "shock and awe" acceleration and maybe even a day at the track, but then what?

Hussain

One of the main issues with the car is it's value in the marketplace. The market, unfortunately, doesn't yet value ultra high performance non sports cars, such as Panamera Turbos and Cayenne Turbos.

Carrera GT

The local dealer had this Cayenne Turbo monstrosity "Mansory" in their showroom the other day. I think a base price of $150-ish for the car, another $70K-ish for the body kit and some mufflers or something. Truly grotesque.

http://www.globalautosports.com/car/...SUV-72403.html



While the primary market has a niche for these "indulgences" the secondary market is far too price conscious and inured to the instant gratification and "first kid on the block" pretentions. I almost like the "simple" Cayenne Turbo S at 550 horse, but then again, I had that as a 2005 model with 525hp. Truly brutal acceleration and massive brakes. Sure, it's a better vehicle and much lighter today, but Porsche hasn't moved the bar much on the Cayenne. I guess you could argue the 991 Turbo S is incrementally advanced from the 997.2 Turbo S, but it's hardly leaps and bounds, other than in price.

jumper5836

It may be lighter but it is not as off road capable as the old ones. In that I mean that it can go off roading but it been lightened in areas that will effect the longevity of the platform. It can go off roading today but 10 years from now it's expected to be in the scrap yard.

They really haven't made the new one perform that much better then the almost 10 year old Caynne Turbo while making it less durable at the same time and promoting its performance improvement by simple making it lighter. Very smart marking.