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AtA primarily works through convection. I like coatings, have used them in the past, still use them, recommend them, but it’s for reasons other than cooling performance. AIT isn’t materially effected. I do like coated ATA IC’s.
I can get you the core size specs tomorrow once I get into the office.
Core manufacturer is Phoenix Racing in China, to our specs. We went through a couple of revisions until we came with the best fin density that worked for us.
Originally Posted by lolo2102
Thank you Payam for your reply, I might go with your ICs then when I will be ready to buy sometimes next month, I hope your great promotion will still stand
I'll keep my word for anyone who emails me, whenever. No problem, I will honor that.
I can get you the core size specs tomorrow once I get into the office.
Core manufacturer is Phoenix Racing in China, to our specs. We went through a couple of revisions until we came with the best fin density that worked for us.
I'll keep my word for anyone who emails me, whenever. No problem, I will honor that.
-Payam
Respect the sharing of data !
Do you have any logs of a standing start to 130mph with your IC's but without meth or eth ? Everything I've seen starts from 0mph. Typical log for a pure stock 991.2 TTS will gain around 25 to 26F IAT 60 to 130mph if started from 0 mph to saturate the IC's.
Stage 4 stuff with 68mm turbo's pushing strong boost for big power gain IAT around 33- 35 F no meth or eth on 60 to 130mph but started from 0mph. Add Meth to the Stage 4 and the IAT plummets.
Similar to this one you posted of a 991.2TTS with stock coolers and JB4, it “looks” around a 26ish F gain from 60 to 130mph from the graph +- a few.
I can get you the core size specs tomorrow once I get into the office.
Core manufacturer is Phoenix Racing in China, to our specs. We went through a couple of revisions until we came with the best fin density that worked for us.
I'll keep my word for anyone who emails me, whenever. No problem, I will honor that.
Do you have any logs of a standing start to 130mph with your IC's but without meth or eth ? Everything I've seen starts from 0mph. Typical log for a pure stock 991.2 TTS will gain around 25 to 26F IAT 60 to 130mph if started from 0 mph to saturate the IC's.
Stage 4 stuff with 68mm turbo's pushing strong boost for big power gain IAT around 33- 35 F no meth or eth on 60 to 130mph but started from 0mph. Add Meth to the Stage 4 and the IAT plummets.
Similar to this one you posted of a 991.2TTS with stock coolers and JB4, it “looks” around a 26ish F gain from 60 to 130mph from the graph +- a few.
Hmmm, I'm not sure if we have any runs from 0.
We were going to get so much data at shift sector and NFZ until it got canceled last month.
Payam (BMS), I'm curious about this as well. Being on my 3rd TTS (997.2 > 991.1 > 991.2), I thought the only considerations were: AWE, AMS, CSF, TiAL, Wagner... am I missing any? This reminds me of the days of modding the r35 GT-R - crazy contentious discussions to quality of ICs (chinese sourced vs more 'legit' tuning shops - i.e., AMS).
I assume these work with the stock shrouds, unlike the AMS/AWE versions which need cutting for 991.2 applications.
I'm running custom tunes by Tim Bailey.
Payam (BMS), I'm curious about this as well. Being on my 3rd TTS (997.2 > 991.1 > 991.2), I thought the only considerations were: AWE, AMS, CSF, TiAL, Wagner... am I missing any? This reminds me of the days of modding the r35 GT-R - crazy contentious discussions to quality of ICs (chinese sourced vs more 'legit' tuning shops - i.e., AMS).
I assume these work with the stock shrouds, unlike the AMS/AWE versions which need cutting for 991.2 applications.
I'm running custom tunes by Tim Bailey.
Originally Posted by Redlinerobert
Are all of these intercoolers made in China? Any of them US made?
You use the stock shrouds, there is a little 1/2" lip on each side of the shroud where you will cut off with a razor blade.
I can't speak on the behalf of the other big name shops you mentioned, however I know that for sure:
TIAL, AMS, SRM/ByDesign IC are all USA made with USA parts either Garret or Spearco cores AFAIK.
We test our products in house with our cars before we ever get anything out into production whether from China or USA.
Our China parts stand up to the QC and abuse we put it through or else we would never carry it.
With the volume of sales we have, it would not be worth it at all if our China stuff kept getting warrantied or returned esp at the low price.
Our intercoolers posted on instagram by one of our customers:
They were having this debate on the 996turbo forum and it got way out of hand, according to the Administrator. Frankly, I think it's a great debate.
I am a huge fan of managing thermal loads within an engine, be it intake air, exhaust, under hood - it is all good.
What I would be interested to know if how the increased air temps impact the ECU and what the ECU does when things get hot. Although I appreciate the above posted graph, it is most likely no representative of real world driving, ie, the data was most likely collected on a dyno.
In real world conditions, I would very much expect the spread to be considerably higher. For example (and I know it isn't a Porsche, but bear with me...) I have a 6.4l Ford twin turbo diesel I tow a lot with. Changing the intercooler to a Mishmoto one resulted in a 15-20 degree f drop in high summer on the highway. Not substantial, but when I added a cooler thermostat and brought the engine temps down another 10 degrees f, the intake charge was consistently 20-30 degrees f lower.
This effect was amplified (considerably) when using the truck in the winter - say -15 to -20c (apologies, mathing is hard at the moment...), where I was seeing intake temps in the 70-80f range. I have removed the inline heater grills as well. Both seasons, when driving unladen, consistently put back 22-24mpg with no noticeable drain on performance.
So, my conclusion is that it does work (well), however, in real world applications will vary from vehicle to vehicle and driver to driver.
BTW, one great point you made above that shouldn’t go unnoticed, is Dyno IC testing isn’t representative. Putting a floor fan on an air duct isn’t close to the CFM at +100mph across a core.
All that is being tested is heat sink capability. Heavier, thicker heat sinks “almost” always win that test.
BMS - as stated in their own post - are sourcing their products from Phoenix Racing, who we have now engaged in a legal dispute in regards to counterfeiting of CSF products.
In order to spare the forums from derailing this thread and risk moderator interjection - I'll spare sharing the messages between Payam and I about "knowingly" purchasing counterfeit (rejected castings) CSF designed end tanks for 991 Turbo (+ several other models that CSF leads the industry in)/
Buyer beware of what you are actually considering to purchase and where they come from. There is a reason parts can be cheap.
BMS - as stated in their own post - are sourcing their products from Phoenix Racing, who we have now engaged in a legal dispute in regards to counterfeiting of CSF products.
In order to spare the forums from derailing this thread and risk moderator interjection - I'll spare sharing the messages between Payam and I about "knowingly" purchasing counterfeit (rejected castings) CSF designed end tanks for 991 Turbo (+ several other models that CSF leads the industry in)/
Buyer beware of what you are actually considering to purchase and where they come from. There is a reason parts can be cheap.
04-19-2020, 03:55 PM
