Randyc151

Including headlights? $5000 included headlights.

MoeMistry

You make some valid points.

It truly comes down to the experience and of course exclusivity has something to do with it; if it didn't, hopefully you bought your 2RS below MSRP and got a smokin deal.

Looking at your list of cars you own, YOU opted for the top-tier of the cars the manufacturer has to offer...and that's awesome AND EXCLUSIVE, and with a premium. You probably also bought it because it makes you feel good.

Some may say you're nuts to pay what you did for your cars, especially with the depreciation, and they're not wrong in their perspective depending on THEIR vantage point.

The BMW that's worth $25K and has $45K in mods is proof you love cars

Look, in the end, it comes down to VALUE; and that's varied across the board from one person to another.

I 100% guarantee that a $5K installation is different than one that is 1.5-2X the price by the right installer...I know this because I see it come through my shop almost weekly. The devil is always in the details, and the installation is just one component.

JPJRJR70

I have lived this all my life! Clearly there a huge difference between a $5k install and a $10k install and it’s not about money!!

Randyc151

All true. I think every one of the cars I've bought offered excellent value for the money. Exclusivity or price was secondary to the benefits I get as compared to buying a 918 or a Bentayga. It's all relative.

MoeMistry

+1...I'll give you an idea...on an RS, we buy OEM decals, never reuse or print our own. Why? the patterns legally cannot be duplicated and most shops have a slightly resized or different one to avoid copyright issues.

So, we end up paying hundreds of $$$ for something that could cost us lest than $20 to make. For some, it's ludicrous, for us and our clients, it's the ONLY option...unless you want lizard green decals that are not a CXX option, then GP steps in and makes it happen We sourced the actual OEM Authorized supplier to Porsche





https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-and-more.html

That's just one component of the cost for us and it's built in, not an add-on.

2fcknfst

Perhaps I could have been a little more clear; I was pointing out some very simple economic facts that the guy paying $10k for a wrap at the $100/hr install rate was in fact paying $92 sq/ft for vinyl.

Let us apply a more 'educated' rate to your installers of $100 per person x 2 day @ $3200 for labor. This still means that the fellow paying $10k for a wrap is into the vinyl for $68 sq/ft. The 3/4" maple hardwood in my house was $10 sq/ft, and the two guys who installed it were capable of doing 600 sq/ft a day at a blended rate of $160/hr for the pair of them, so the guys doing the wrap install had better have PhDs... Now, the hardwood guys did not have the advantage of a computer that already has a given vehicles dimensions in it and produces perfectly cut pieces on an industrial cutter - these guys have to measure, cut accurately and fit into odd areas, corners, etc. And as I look at these guys near me doing 'cheap' wraps, I think they have a very good understanding of the market - they get clients in based upon reasonable costs and a warranty, and they keep them for a long time because the client will invariably rip or damage the wrap and will need to get it fixed in the future.

I don't think the exercise of establishing the true costs of something is 'futile' - the analogy of a guy who wraps car versus your accountant is only really valid if the car wrapping guy spends years in school, which seems unlikely.

MoeMistry

I suppose insurance, workman's comp, taxes, rent, advertising, marketing, 401k, health benefits, etc. aren't factored into the equation.

Your analogy has severely underestimated what truly goes into skilled labor on cars worth more than some homes. I personally wouldn't be seeking the cheapest, or the most expensive. Seek the right VALUE fit for YOU.

Your thought process is an excellent one for you based on YOUR needs. It wouldn't be the right fit for ME as:

1. I value my time. How many times have we been in a spot that someone promised and under-delivered? Or something went wrong and the vendor shrugged his/her shoulders?
2. I want a relationship with vendor skilled in his/her craft that I never have to worry about the details I'm not experienced in
3. I'm a creature of habit. Once a vendor has earned my trust, I just want to be taken care of and want consistent results
4. I'm looking to keep the vendor in business and thriving as it's in my best interest for my needs that they stay in business
5. These cars/services are a luxury and not necessity. So, for me, it's a lot about the experience and making me reward myself for working hard
6. I'm a capitalist. Just as I want my portfolio to grow and make me money, why would I grind a vendor for a few $$$$ when my asset on the line is $$$$$$ ??? isn't logical

But the above, is VALUE to me, and we each have our own reasons

I respect your vantage point and can appreciate it for what it's worth

2fcknfst

So, what is the wholesale cost of the vinyl...?

JPJRJR70

Dude, give it up! We hear you! Your the bomb that paid $5k to get a wrap while guys like me paid top dollar for work that is quality and OEM finish with OEM parts/accessories replaced back on. Installers like Moe are super rare and the passion and workmanship they put into our cars is priceless for customers like me and a waste of time and money for you! I believe in the loyalty and the long term relationship with my installer over cost! We all have seen the over night installer that does crap work then sets up elsewhere after trying it on a sample car. So clearly look at it this way, you paid $200.00 for an escort to excite you and clearly she’s a 3 maybe a 4 on a scale of 1-10. Me, I paid $1,000.00 for a 9-10 and got an amazing looking model to do the same but the image I got to see were f—-ing amazing and overall we got to the same point! Deal with it, continue to go to your guy at $5k and God Bless!
PS.... Moe, sorry to compare you to an escort! Even though your my future escort I’ll stick with Nick in PA! Lol, enjoy!

Penn4S

Thank God we live in the US as competition reins supreme when there are many good installers. I live in an area where there are some very good PPF installers therefore I've not seen a $10k on a 911 yet I have seen some really beautiful work done.
But it is a democracy and if someone based on reputation of work can command $10k I say good for you. For those that can pay less due to competition or if getting the highest level isn't the most important you can choose another route.
I get what I can in my business, what the market will bear. If there is no market for $10k wrap we won't see it. But as long as some guys want to pay to get the extra attention and comfort knowing the job was done to their level we will always have these tiers of business for what some perceive as the same job.

JPJRJR70

Damn! Well said! Now I regret my escort example!!

MoeMistry

+1...eloquently said.

When I started in 1995, there were not many in this tier of work, for me, it’s always been about passion, workmanship, and customer satisfaction. I realize now days it sounds like lip service, but some of us out there still feel connected to our craft and work hard every day to selectively pass it on to the next generation.

I know others’ intention isn’t to bring down and simplify our work to Madison Avenue vendors, and that’s why I don’t take it personally and try and educate as many people as we can. Years ago it WOULD bother why people didn’t want to go to the level we go, but as I became more mature I realized I don’t need to work on every client that calls and is shopping around. I just need to find those that are seeking this level of work and see it as value.

Once i I understood that concept, it also made it easy to send clients to the right people around me. I openly tell some phone callers that are fishing that we’re just not what they’re looking for and I ask them who they’re also considering then point them to the right person...the person on the other side appreciates the honesty and everyone is better for it.

As a 1st generation immigrant and an american citizen, I’m proud and fortunate of the opportunities this country has given me. Capitalism, free marketplace and freedom to choose are just a few cornerstones and allow us to rant away on our soapboxes in venues like this.

As long as we remember to see each others’ viewpoints and empathize, we can broaden our horizon.

MoeMistry

LOL

Thank you for the support. I have a lot of respect for Nick and he’s smart, skilled, and someone I’d trust with my car

2fcknfst

'Dude', you realize that with a hooker, you're the trick, right?

I apologize for the frenzy that has developed from this post, but I stand by what I was after all along and that is 'what is the real cost associated with wrapping a car'. The reason this is of interest to me is that if you are to look at the photo attached, you will see that the leading edge of the wrap on the bumper cover has lifted and some grime has gotten below it. This initial wrap was applied by the Porsche Dealer in Edmonton - PORSCHE DEALER - and was an absolutely *** installation. So when my salesman tells me they are giving me a $4k wrap instead of a discount on the purchase price of the car, and this is what I get, I suspect others would be somewhat pissed too, and even some more may in fact be interested in finding the true costs - like me.

I work. I have an hourly billable rate associated with my work, and I am educated. The value of my time grows with the experience I garner from the job; this is how I can afford the garage I have. To suggest to me (or anyone for that matter) that the guy who did this work on a brand new $240k purchase has an equivalent skill set to my accountant is smoking something.

So now, on my nickel, I have to take the car back (twice in this case) in order to have the work corrected by a Porsche approved vendor. Did I get my time back? No. Am I irritated by the suggestion that folks pay upwards of $10k for this service? Yes. And in order to make sure that this doesn't happen again with any other car I may wrap, I educate myself, that's all.

MoeMistry

That is so refreshing and thank you for being honest and sharing your experience. Truth be told, I knew this about you and I don't even know you. Your words carried your feelings as I read it.

I'm sincerely sorry you've had such a bad experience. And I hope you also have an appreciation why I educate so much on this forum. I want to make sure guys like you don't have these stories.

There are so many things I can touch on from your recent response and I'd say I agree with most and empathize with the rest.

YOUR time is valuable...that's why guys like me do our best not to waste it. I've gone as far getting on a placn, intercepting a transporter, resolving an issue, so client from another state didn't have to deal with it.

I fixed 1 of the 2 problems, but I did my best and the the thing I couldn't fix, had to do with a design issue that was out of my hands.

That level of service can only be done when you're charging for your services accordingly and it's calculated in the business as the level of service you want to provide to your client.

That day ended up costing me roughly $1K, and that's just the actual cost, not the opportunity cost...do you think a shop charging basement prices would ever go that far?

I'm assuming you're a CPA, I earned a BS in Accounting from Chapman University, and can appreciate billable time and growing my experience. That's the approach I take in my business. I have a staff of 6 full-time techs and I want them to live the American dream if they work hard and are good with their $$$...my job is to just put the opportunities in front of them. For that, I have to pay well and keep building their skills and training them...all that costs $$$. Don't get me started on the turnover in our industry...but I'm blessed to have some of the best clients anyone can ask for and they're VERY VERY patient with us.

I know our business model and philosophy is a needle-in-a-haystack, and many TRY and replicate it, but hopefully, you can appreciate it now that we've gotten to know each other a littler better.

Companies like mine are there around the world, we're just in very small #s...but we need people to better understand us. You may not agree with the level of service or the cost, but should appreciate and be happy this level exist for the person that's seeking it.

This thread has taken a turn for a more positive direction and I'm thankful and grateful for your openness and honest feedback. I hope you see YOU are a critical contributor to the lesson