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In the AMG GT-R thread, someone posted an article from Car magazine comparing GT3.2 to GT-R. The article makes reference to the GT3.2 understeering, and the use of Paddle Neutral to "drive around it" (see below).
As a past racer turned DE enthusiast (with a GT3.2 inbound), this raises several questions which I thought may also be helpful to others. In no particular order....
- 991 GT3/RS owners...is corner-entry understeer a common tendency? Or is this just a case of the author's driving skill, cold temps, tire pressure, etc coming into play? My 991 GTS has no tendency to understeer in any phase of cornering. I have no seat time in a GT3 to form an opinion, but I am not used to seeing references to understeer.
- Assuming paddle-neutral has always existed on GT3/RS (MT owner here), does anyone actually use it during spirited/track driving to "coast" into a corner?
Having heard many times over the years the theory/debate of sequential downshifting vs skipping gears vs neutral, and understanding the performance puts/takes/risks of each philosophy in a manual-trans environment, it is intriguing to ponder this in a PDK environment.
Maybe I need to think harder about PDK vs MT for GT3.2
Cold tires will make the car understeer like crazy... not much of a problem for me once they're hot. If you go in too hot and lift it tends to oversteer. Could be differences in suspension setup and ambient conditions, etc.
Seems pretty odd to me. The issue is that when there is not weight on the front tires, it can understeer. No different than any 911 in history really. Also happens in mid-engined cars. So pulling both paddles is basically like a momentary lift to take weight off the rear and thus put it back on the front.
Personally, I wouldn't let this feature affect your decision of MT vs. PDK. Warm the tires, trail brake, etc. You don't really see race car drivers doing this paddle kick thing on the track, unless it is to have fun doing skids.
Paddle neutral was referred to by AP as the hooligan mode. It's there for burnouts and drifting, not some trick track tool to control understeer. Drive it right and understeer is simply not an issue with the 991 gt3's/RS
'We added a ‘Hooligan mode’ so you can do donuts in the car. Or, let’s say you have a 2nd gear curve, it’s wet, there’s nobody around and you wanted to drift. How do you do that in the manual? You dip the clutch and press the throttle to get the car around. That’s not possible in a normal automatic, but it is in the GT3: if you pull both paddles it engages neutral so you can 'clutch kick' the GT3. Same for race starts – you can dial up more wheelspin than the computer will give you. This was a major programme with the gearbox development to ensure you could play around with the PDK.'
cannot see how popping the clutch mid corner is an advanced driving technique except to experience a spin maybe. no the rs does not push any more than other cars, actually with new tires its tough unless poor driving habits
I find the diff and combination with RWS on the 991RS so effective that understeer is as much eradicated as you can expect from a car with rear weight balance. At some point, if it's on Cup2, the fronts do lose their grip when heat cycled too many times. I have never considered pushing it into neutral, but is worth a try.
I find the diff and combination with RWS on the 991RS so effective that understeer is as much eradicated as you can expect from a car with rear weight balance. At some point, if it's on Cup2, the fronts do lose their grip when heat cycled too many times. I have never considered pushing it into neutral, but is worth a try.
I don't see any advantage over changing throttle and brake positions if moving weight forward is desired. In fact, when the paddles are released, you may disturb the car enough and create a bigger problem. Trail braking properly gives a 911 as much front grip as you want.
It's just a bad idea. Releasing the power from the drive train for (the idea to transfer wight is just wrong), it might be useful in an AWD (C4/Turbo) where all wheels are connected somewhat, but not in a rear wheel drive/steer GT3 or RS. A correct response to understeer in ether is to relax the steering input a touch to regain grip of the front wheels, along with a slight lift in throttle. Or just do be so eager to pound the gas peddle be for the apex.
cannot see how popping the clutch mid corner is an advanced driving technique except to experience a spin maybe. no the rs does not push any more than other cars, actually with new tires its tough unless poor driving habits
+1 I certainly have never heard of any professional racer (or coach( regardless
of car or context *ever* suggest that the way to cure initial understeer on corner
entry is to select neutral in order to effect a weight transfer to the front... there
are other ways to achieve this, (fractional) throttle control or trail braking...
someone should have performed a field sobriety test on this guy...
p.s which magazine (and writer) authored this?
p.p.s I Scotland we refer to this sort of nonsense as "talking ****e"...
I think you need to separate the RS here and not lump it in with the standard GT3. In my experience (owned and tracked 991 C2S>GT3>GT3RS) each step had an noticeable reduction in understeer. The 991 C2S understeer was far better than any 997 I had ever driven. The GT3 felt like it was almost completely erased and easily overcome with a bit of throttle or trail braking. The RS feels like the front axle will never stop gripping, it's a giant step beyond the standard GT3 in terms of understeer, no doubt due to the wider front track and wider front tires. I don't believe that the .2 has any of the mechanical modifications of the RS up front so it will probably has the same understeer characteristics as the .1.
A bit of on throttle understeer on the limit if your a little too greedy, nothing like 911 from before.
How would pulling on paddles fix that better as opposed to a little lift?
The nose ALWAYS tucks in with just a small or big lift..
05-19-2017, 04:19 PM
PDK, paddle-neutral, and understeer...
