OT: LT Spider #908, and 911R thread
12-29-2016, 11:36 AM
#106
+1. I wish all the loyal customers had the ability to buy any Porsche they wanted.
12-29-2016, 11:42 AM
#107
Drifting
The R is more special than the Boxster Spyder, but it also costs twice as much.
12-29-2016, 12:18 PM
#108
CJ - your 675 looks great. It's always nice to see a spec that's been thought through and is unique.
I didn't realise the thread had turned into another R allocating debate!
For what it's worth, I think that suitcase and myself both benefited from a sweeping up exercise by Porsche who found some later allocations for people who has missed out but had a good history. Not exactly sure where they came from - I was told China, but others have heard differently. (Suitcase and I live thousands of miles apart but our production numbers are consecutive, which suggests some kind of link in the late allocations!)
No doubt many equally worthy recipients still missed out, and I don't know if Porsche realised the extent of problems that were going to be created. (I do think a lot of it, for some people, is because of the supposed 'profit' locked in to the car. I don't think everyone who wants one would want it if it depreciated).
My guess is also that the 918 program (US only) is from another era, and will end up being over generous in time. If US owners keep their cars 3 years, they get 10 years worth of priority. It's causing problems now - thinks about 7 years from now when a guy who bought one Porsche in 2014 and sold it in 2017 for a profit, is getting priority on 2023's limited model!
Step back from that though and look at the potential upside for Porsche. Launching a near $1m car in enough numbers to pretty much satisfy demand, is a great way of self-identifying all the people on the planet who are willing to give you 7 figures for your product. They now have direct contact and a two way relationship with their highest value targets. "The whales".
Doesn't make it right that others have missed out just because they have spread their loyalty over a number of years, but you can see why it's attractive to Porsche finance department.
In other countries, where 918 program doesn't apply, the same thing happens, just more subjectively - who are the current. "best customers, with "current" being an important word I think. A long history of buying is great, but I'm sure the dealers are most interested in who is buying last year, now and next year.
The metrics no doubt show that on average there is a significant difference in the purchasing power of those allocated 911R, either just in Porsche terms or across the brands when it comes to multi-brand dealers' choice of allocation. I've also been told that the average 918 owner spends a lot more on options, which means that every car sold to them is worth more profit. Again, this doesn't mean there are no mistakes in here, or that spending power = enthusiast, but it makes business sense to keep them happy.
I'm sure Porsche has all the data it needs to work out what's best, and is fine-tuning the next campaign as we speak. It does seem that they have lost some very good customers (I was almost one of them), but none of us on this board consider how many new Macans or Panameras they have sold to people who have no interest or expectation in an R, but like to be associated with the brand behind the car of the moment.
So,on another level, maybe this is just an extension of the thinking behind their original SUV program, and a few 911GT customer casualties along the way don't make a difference anyway. Harsh, but possible, and it's naive to think it's not profit that is ultimately the main motive in everything they do, even if many individuals within the company are motivated by the cars and the history as much as we are.
I didn't realise the thread had turned into another R allocating debate!
For what it's worth, I think that suitcase and myself both benefited from a sweeping up exercise by Porsche who found some later allocations for people who has missed out but had a good history. Not exactly sure where they came from - I was told China, but others have heard differently. (Suitcase and I live thousands of miles apart but our production numbers are consecutive, which suggests some kind of link in the late allocations!)
No doubt many equally worthy recipients still missed out, and I don't know if Porsche realised the extent of problems that were going to be created. (I do think a lot of it, for some people, is because of the supposed 'profit' locked in to the car. I don't think everyone who wants one would want it if it depreciated).
My guess is also that the 918 program (US only) is from another era, and will end up being over generous in time. If US owners keep their cars 3 years, they get 10 years worth of priority. It's causing problems now - thinks about 7 years from now when a guy who bought one Porsche in 2014 and sold it in 2017 for a profit, is getting priority on 2023's limited model!
Step back from that though and look at the potential upside for Porsche. Launching a near $1m car in enough numbers to pretty much satisfy demand, is a great way of self-identifying all the people on the planet who are willing to give you 7 figures for your product. They now have direct contact and a two way relationship with their highest value targets. "The whales".
Doesn't make it right that others have missed out just because they have spread their loyalty over a number of years, but you can see why it's attractive to Porsche finance department.
In other countries, where 918 program doesn't apply, the same thing happens, just more subjectively - who are the current. "best customers, with "current" being an important word I think. A long history of buying is great, but I'm sure the dealers are most interested in who is buying last year, now and next year.
The metrics no doubt show that on average there is a significant difference in the purchasing power of those allocated 911R, either just in Porsche terms or across the brands when it comes to multi-brand dealers' choice of allocation. I've also been told that the average 918 owner spends a lot more on options, which means that every car sold to them is worth more profit. Again, this doesn't mean there are no mistakes in here, or that spending power = enthusiast, but it makes business sense to keep them happy.
I'm sure Porsche has all the data it needs to work out what's best, and is fine-tuning the next campaign as we speak. It does seem that they have lost some very good customers (I was almost one of them), but none of us on this board consider how many new Macans or Panameras they have sold to people who have no interest or expectation in an R, but like to be associated with the brand behind the car of the moment.
So,on another level, maybe this is just an extension of the thinking behind their original SUV program, and a few 911GT customer casualties along the way don't make a difference anyway. Harsh, but possible, and it's naive to think it's not profit that is ultimately the main motive in everything they do, even if many individuals within the company are motivated by the cars and the history as much as we are.
12-29-2016, 03:21 PM
#111
Rennlist Member
Boxster S and Boxster Spyder can't be compared in the same sentence. To me, the Boxster Spyder is one of the best valued Porsche in the last 10 years. Like the R, it's not designed to go very fast around a race track (but it performs very well, only 5 secs slower than the GT4 at the Ring while on the standard PZero tires).
The R is more special than the Boxster Spyder, but it also costs twice as much.
The R is more special than the Boxster Spyder, but it also costs twice as much.
12-29-2016, 05:03 PM
#112
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C7 GS is seriously attractive package. Can't imagine what it's going to be like when it goes mid-engine and can really put down the power.
I was grandfathering you in and IIRC your 4.0 was a modded, track-beater hence the low price. 
All depends on what part of the country you live and your relationship with dealers. My current RS was MSRP; all my prior GT3/RS came with a modest discount.
More like 5x at current prices. 
12-30-2016, 07:56 PM
#113
I guess Porsche should have created a VIP, VVIP, and VVVIP programs, to make everybody happy
. A lot more multi-millionaires and billionaires than before.
12-30-2016, 08:49 PM
#114
Platinum Dealership
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What he means is that for 2-3 years the CGT was totally under appreciated AND the world economy took a dump and some guys lost 100k or more pretty quick, representing 25% of their equity.
I imagine when we all collectively found out the car was a go, we were happy. BUT, once they announced they would build 900...and it would cost 900k...I was gun shy. Didn't want to lose 200k on a car.
12-30-2016, 09:37 PM
#115
Drifting
What he means is that for 2-3 years the CGT was totally under appreciated AND the world economy took a dump and some guys lost 100k or more pretty quick, representing 25% of their equity.
I imagine when we all collectively found out the car was a go, we were happy. BUT, once they announced they would build 900...and it would cost 900k...I was gun shy. Didn't want to lose 200k on a car.
I imagine when we all collectively found out the car was a go, we were happy. BUT, once they announced they would build 900...and it would cost 900k...I was gun shy. Didn't want to lose 200k on a car.
12-30-2016, 09:53 PM
#118
Will the value of the 911R still be ridiculously high after the next GT3 is offered as a manual? I don't get the popularity of the car other than the fact that currently all GT3s are PDK.
CJ - GT4 or GT350R?
CJ - GT4 or GT350R?
)
