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Which is why I said you had to sell it a the right time.
Did I not mention buy it in March 2016 and sell it at Sep 2016, when you still have a 2017 model car in 2016? There was only 5-7 used GTS for sale back in Sep 2016 in the whole country
Right now there is already 2018 model in the horizon, and prices have come down so its not a valid opportunity anymore. The opportunity keeps changing all the time, every week, every month, if you waited till 2 months after the allocations for Spyder came out, you wouldn't be able to get a discount then either, or an allocation.
Sounds time consuming......any insight yet on Canadian allocations?
Now THAT's funny. Why don't you check the search criteria again, look closely, what do you see? oh hey! the entire US is included in the search, that zip code is included as the required starting point! waddya know?
I'm calling you out for calling someone "misleading" when in fact, they have quickly become a massive asset to this forum, and not, as you claim, because I own any vehicle which is just a small part of this conversation. You're getting chastised because you very inappropriately decided to call someone misleading, that's it.
1) See attachment. That is what the screen shows. Didn't need to scroll.
2) A person who is an asset would never need to toot their own horn to be seen as that by others.
1) See attachment. That is what the screen shows. Didn't need to scroll.
2) A person who is an asset would never need to toot their own horn to be seen as that by others.
Sorry I would have to go with CAlexio on his link on this one.
Just tried the link on mobile Safari, Desktrop Chrome, Desktop Mozilla Firefox, all three of them pulled an Autotrader pre search link with zip code 94133, distance radius unlimited. If you start scrolling you should see the left side have a drop down for radius "Any Distance". Also when you start scrolling down to the actual 11 Boxster Spyder listed, you will see that many car listings are in fact over 2000+ miles away from the zip code.
Sorry I would have to go with CAlexio on his link on this one.
Just tried the link on mobile Safari, Desktrop Chrome, Desktop Mozilla Firefox, all three of them pulled an Autotrader pre search link with zip code 94133, distance radius unlimited. If you start scrolling you should see the left side have a drop down for radius "Any Distance". Also when you start scrolling down to the actual 11 Boxster Spyder listed, you will see that many car listings are in fact over 2000+ miles away from the zip code.
And this was the starting point, lightly optioned with normal miles and not loaded with low miles, as you pointed out here
Originally Posted by chaosoul
Then Boxster Spyder allocation just came out, there wasn't any waitlist at a lot of dealers; sure, some dealer had high demand because just so happen the same 3-5 people that want it called the same dealer. but many dealer had just wide open allocations. Seen some dealers gave some decent discounts on the allocation orders. If you optioned it light, after small discount your purchase price would be a low 80s. Guess how much your car is worth after 12k miles when 90% of country's inventory is asking between 104k to 120k? You'll get least what you paid for it.
I guess that lightly optioned means different things to different people. Here is an example of one listed by a dealer for $89990 and appears to be loaded from the write up.
And this was the starting point, lightly optioned with normal miles and not loaded with low miles, as you pointed out here
I guess that lightly optioned means different things to different people. Here is an example of one listed by a dealer for $89990 and appears to be loaded from the write up.
Yea sorry, that one was in an accident with accident history, I know that car and also seen it since they listed in Feb. They wanted 97k in the beginning, then drop to 95k, and now this price.
Auction and trade value for these kinds of car drops on average 10-15k. Most GT4 with accident auctioned between 84k and 89k.
I didn't actually create the link, it was by CAlexio, however, actually its not searched for only highly optioned car with low miles, its search for all Spyder in the US. Even that accident history one was in the search. Even if a spyder is selling at 89.9k (which isn't the case for clean history vehicles), dealer and auction will still pay at least 80k for it. As I mentioned, its not your problem if other people want to pay more for options, few options do reflect on the resale price. I see values of dozens and dozens of Porsche go through auctions every month, most options will not reflect the auction price (a 59k MSRP Macan S will auction for 48k now, however a 79k MSRP Macan S will auction for like 61k, you pay 20k more options but only get 2k in return). So it brings me back to my point, even if it was only a 85k MSRP Spyder that you bought for 82k, and you put 12k miles on it, you'll still get at least 15k under lowest retail asking price for it, less than 2k depreciation.
Chaosoul, a question for the magic 8 ball.. do you ever get tired of winning so much?
I don't care about any of that actually, which is why I keep anonymous. It saddens me that I need to defend some of my points, makes me don't want to share more info, it actually does me no good. I know how the market work well enough to know that the more I share about this, the more demand there will be, and the harder it is for me to recommend my actual real life friends and associates to do things like this.
I don't want glory, and I don't need people to thank me or anything really.
I honestly just want accurate and good information to be out there, so people are informed in the right way. I like giving concrete numbers (like total fees, interest, tax you pay), and actual examples to inform people.
I honestly just want accurate and good information to be out there, so people are informed in the right way. I like giving concrete numbers (like total fees, interest, tax you pay), and actual examples to inform people.
It saddens me that I need to defend some of my points, makes me don't want to share more info, it actually does me no good.
Chao, I'm sure most folks (including yours truly) appreciate the info you've shared. But to provide some perspective, I doubt there is anyone here (or on any car forum, for that matter) with 50 posts or more who hasn't had to at least occasionally defend a post or assertion he's made. I've learned tons from guys like mooty, z356, lexvan and many others on RL and they are some of the most respected members, but I've still seen people jump on their stones. It's the internet. And we've got more than our share of know-it-alls here, so you can't really blame folks for questioning some things. Solo mis dos centavos.
Like I was trying to say, you can't take values on the market now. Sep 2016 is 7-8 months ago. Keeping a car for 6 months now, vs 6 months in March/April 2016 is completely different story. The opportunity is now loss with 40+ used cars for sale and new inventory on the lot where people can buy at discount. It drives the market down because you miss out on the market of people who can't wait 4 months to get their Macan GTS, so rather just get a slightly used one. Having 2018 model on the horizon won't help either. Its simple market mechanism, if you have two identical car one 2017 model one 2018 model at same price, people will always choose the 2018 model one, this creates a push down where 2018 model is worth more than 2017, and 2017 is worth more than 2016. Back in early 2016, April, you already have a 2017 car, and its still 8 months before the calendar year turns 2017, and 16 months before the next model year Macan GTS arrives.
Also, even if we are looking at current market prices, which doesn't reflect the prices of last September, Upon looking at the used inventory now that you mentioned it, there are two used Macan GTS for sale in the whole country and they are of the cheapest: 66k and 66.5k retail price. And as I suspected, they did not keep the car for 6 months, 66k one kept for 1 year, and 66.5k kept for 10 months. The original MSRP doesn't matter, its their choice they spend extra money on the options that don't reflect their value so that's why I said options matter a lot. (For example, you can say a 100k GT4 with LWB will keep its MSRP, and PTS is even better, so what about a 155k MSRP GT4 in PTS and LWB and CXX, will that keep its MSRP because it got more options?) Even looking at current values, the dealer probably gave each of them 61-62k for each car knowing how Porsche preowned trade in works. Even at these values it is looking pretty good, so you can imagine if they kept it only 6 months instead of 1 year, and sold it in last Sep/Oct instead, the numbers are way way better.
And even if its not 2k depreciation, so what? Even if we go to 3k or 4k, that's still buying two brand new Porsche per year for a cost of 6-8k, still good I am sure by a lot of you guy's standards.
Boxster Spyder being limited or not or related to GT4 doesn't really matter. The point is you can get one as Joe Schmoe first time buyer. Obviously I can claim, why don't you just buy a new GT3RS at MSRP every half year, but obviously 99.9% of the people can't get more than 1-2 allocations, so that would not be a correct claim. But literally the first month of allocation release, there are dealers that just have wide open allocations with no line, no ADM, and some gave small discounts. You don't have to be a previous customer to buy one.
The point being is that there are so many different cases and situation and you can't just put every case in cookie cutter. This one case may be buying a limited car that you could just easily get allocations to, another case is a just-released trim or model, what will work couple months ago probably won't work now. Its all unique.
Yea everything I said is perfectly do-able for someone with no connection, probably prior purchase history would make it easier, but not a requirement.
If I said if you got 7% discount on Macan S in 2014, of course it will hold value but that's actually almost impossible unless you really know someone back then. But Macan GTS is perfectly do-able with that discount, I've seen a few first time buyers getting those prices. Because it was 2016 and Macan was already out for 2 years. The GTS did not create as much of a hype in the beginning as they hoped, also they produced a lot. So it wasn't really a new model release more like a new trim release. You gotta shop around a decent amount, pulling leverage between different dealer's written offer, someone will bite eventually.
Yea Panamera you will have a hard time getting more than 3% discount at the moment so there really isn't much opportunity there, plus buyers, auctions are not confident with Panamera values yet because of its history in the past 3 years.
I appreciate the info. I guess it is possible if you time everything perfectly and can get a discount. The problem is that most people won't be able to time purchasing cars perfectly(the right model and year) to be able to get in and out of cars every 6 months. If I could drive a new Porsche every 6 months, put 12k miles on it and lose a couple grand, I would. I don't think anyone would pass up that offer. It might be possible with your skill set, but probably not feasible for most people. I apologize if I sounded dubious, but you made it seem like people are stupid for buying Prius' and that it is easy for everyone to get in and out of Porsches every 6 months.
I appreciate the info. I guess it is possible if you time everything perfectly and can get a discount. The problem is that most people won't be able to time purchasing cars perfectly(the right model and year) to be able to get in and out of cars every 6 months. If I could drive a new Porsche every 6 months, put 12k miles on it and lose a couple grand, I would. I don't think anyone would pass up that offer. It might be possible with your skill set, but probably not feasible for most people. I apologize if I sounded dubious, but you made it seem like people are stupid for buying Prius' and that it is easy for everyone to get in and out of Porsches every 6 months.
Sorry if I sound that way. I certainly never said it would be easy. Even after numerous years, and dozens of cars, some of my friends and family still have to come to me to ask my exactly what car to buy, at what time, and what options, and couldn't figure it out themselves. And this certainly doesn't fall in just Porsche, as well as other brands that I suggest on weekly basis. But one thing I can assure you is that, these are deals normal customers can get (not one of those insane discount that only I could get).
I'm not trying to tell people, you should all just start doing now and it would work. Truth is, it would probably end badly for most people, like a lot of rooky day traders in wallstreet. It is a skillset, as you said, and it takes time to build, and it took me over a decade to have a keen eye for this sort of matter. And it doesn't necessarily needs trial and error of losing money. I always tell people to start looking at prices when car comes out, and follow it once a month. Call some dealers, act like a potential buyer, find out how much discount you can get without buying it. Look at trade-in values, auction values, even KBB can be used as a reference if you adjust it. I would be open to suggest one or two RL members non-GT cars to buy in the future, and I am sure they will vouch for its value after they keep it for half year and sells it.
04-17-2017, 11:01 PM
