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It would not surprise me at all that Porsche would go turbo. There is no need to show up at Le Mans next year without a car that gets better fuel economy. The Ford GT and Ferrari 488 got 1 pit stop less for ever 2 that Porsche made.
It would not surprise me at all that Porsche would go turbo. There is no need to show up at Le Mans next year without a car that gets better fuel economy. The Ford GT and Ferrari 488 got 1 pit stop less for ever 2 that Porsche made.
What???
In addition to the highly publicized BOP changes made post qualifying yet pre race that were designed to "hinder" the Ferrari and Ford and "help" the Corvette and Aston, there were small tweaks to fuel tank sizes - including Porsche - to give all GTE Pro runners a roughly 14 lap pit stop cycle.
It's honestly a shame that LeMans is the driving force behind everything......the RSR is plenty competitive now in IMSA and WEC. Ford shows up, sandbags in both series, and will be gone after next year, guaranteed. Pretty sure had the RSR shown well this year, and the ACO didn't play into the "Ford vs. Ferrari" bull**** marketing....this test video wouldn't even exist. Just before LeMans Corvette and Porsche were assured that the NA package would remain competitive for the foreseeable future.
Now we will see Ford and Ferrari pegged back all year, and the Corvette or Porsche will win the championships, with "uncompetitive" NA engines.
It's honestly a shame that LeMans is the driving force behind everything......the RSR is plenty competitive now in IMSA and WEC. Ford shows up, sandbags in both series, and will be gone after next year, guaranteed. Pretty sure had the RSR shown well this year, and the ACO didn't play into the "Ford vs. Ferrari" bull**** marketing....this test video wouldn't even exist. Just before LeMans Corvette and Porsche were assured that the NA package would remain competitive for the foreseeable future.
Now we will see Ford and Ferrari pegged back all year, and the Corvette or Porsche will win the championships, with "uncompetitive" NA engines.
What? Are you high?
The mid-engined RSR has been heavily rumored since last year.
Do you understand how BOP works?
In a "run what you brung" situation the RSR would be far, far behind the Ford, Ferrari, and Corvette. The issue is that BOP is an inherently strategic, political game, and Ford sandbagged to take advantage of that set of circumstances this year. The Porsches RSRs are not competitive on pace this year, and the gap will only continue to grow if they make small refinements to an already mature package. The split case Mezger engine - of which I'm a major fan - is old, heavy, complex, inefficient, and down on torque vs the competition.
Would you rather Porsche innovate or whine to slow the others down?
Turbos do not increase fuel efficiency. That power is not free - fuel needs to burn to give you that power. Small displacement turbo motors are tested without their turbos spooled up for fuel economy. Once the turbos kick in, it is all the same.
It's honestly a shame that LeMans is the driving force behind everything......the RSR is plenty competitive now in IMSA and WEC. Ford shows up, sandbags in both series, and will be gone after next year, guaranteed. Pretty sure had the RSR shown well this year, and the ACO didn't play into the "Ford vs. Ferrari" bull**** marketing....this test video wouldn't even exist. Just before LeMans Corvette and Porsche were assured that the NA package would remain competitive for the foreseeable future.
Now we will see Ford and Ferrari pegged back all year, and the Corvette or Porsche will win the championships, with "uncompetitive" NA engines.
The mid-engined RSR has been heavily rumored since last year.
Do you understand how BOP works?
In a "run what you brung" situation the RSR would be far, far behind the Ford, Ferrari, and Corvette. The issue is that BOP is an inherently strategic, political game, and Ford sandbagged to take advantage of that set of circumstances this year. The Porsches RSRs are not competitive on pace this year, and the gap will only continue to grow if they make small refinements to an already mature package. The split case Mezger engine - of which I'm a major fan - is old, heavy, complex, inefficient, and down on torque vs the competition.
Would you rather Porsche innovate or whine to slow the others down?
I wouldn't call mid-engine turbo "innovating"....lol. It's kinda been around for a while.
I'm talking exactly about BOP, if you understood what I was saying. I'm not talking about the engine placement, we all know that. I'm talking about the NA vs. turbo debate. Up until before LeMans....Porsche was still leaning toward NA, for the mid-rear engine configuration. Meaning a new DFI NA motor (probably some variant of 991 GT3R motor)....I agree, mezger is dead....but the RSR as it is, today, in IMSA and WEC, with the current BOP is competitive. Could it be better? Sure, that's why they are moving the engine forward....but they obviously were heavily considering sticking with a new DFI NA motor for a reason, and that was because the governing bodies told them and Corvette the NA would remain competitive.
At LeMans, for that specific BOP, at that specific, un-like any other track....they may be at the disadvantage, but so was Corvette, and Aston. Did their cars also magically turn into terds overnight because they aren't mid-engine and turbo? No, which means the BOP was not right. BOP is the world we live in. Which means they can make a NA, front or rear engine racecar competitive with the mid-engine, turbo car.
Porsche played the same game when they showed up for their inaugural LeMans win with the 991. I get it, but they didn't ruin the landscape, and go qualify 5 seconds faster than they practiced.
Which is why I said it's a shame. One track is forcing sweeping changes across the GTE landscape.
The new 991 Cup is testing, and you can be sure it will have a new DFI NA motor in it...no more mezger either. GT3R running new DFI NA motor against mid-engine turbo cars, and winning, why? Because of BOP. Rear engine, NA motor is competitive. Some tracks it's better, some it's not. Look at Blancpain, their BOP should probably be the template.
Trust me, all these crazy turbo motors are going to kill privateer racing. Why? Cost. Just go as Will Turner, he can't even run a weekend without having BMW factory support just for the motor alone. It's nuts. Wait until more GTD teams trying racing these turbo setups in enduro settings. Their fawking heads will spin.
We should all be thanking Porsche, Audi, and Lambo for still making and selling NA racecars.....
Originally Posted by kfmcmahon
so a only 2 year FGT run? .....guaranteed?
Yes, this whole factory Ford program is a 2 year deal.
I wouldn't call mid-engine turbo "innovating"....lol. It's kinda been around for a while.
I'm talking exactly about BOP, if you understood what I was saying. I'm not talking about the engine placement, we all know that. I'm talking about the NA vs. turbo debate. Up until before LeMans....Porsche was still leaning toward NA, for the mid-rear engine configuration. Meaning a new DFI NA motor (probably some variant of 991 GT3R motor)....I agree, mezger is dead....but the RSR as it is, today, in IMSA and WEC, with the current BOP is competitive. Could it be better? Sure, that's why they are moving the engine forward....but they obviously were heavily considering sticking with a new DFI NA motor for a reason, and that was because the governing bodies told them and Corvette the NA would remain competitive.
At LeMans, for that specific BOP, at that specific, un-like any other track....they may be at the disadvantage, but so was Corvette, and Aston. Did their cars also magically turn into terds overnight because they aren't mid-engine and turbo? No, which means the BOP was not right. BOP is the world we live in. Which means they can make a NA, front or rear engine racecar competitive with the mid-engine, turbo car.
Porsche played the same game when they showed up for their inaugural LeMans win with the 991. I get it, but they didn't ruin the landscape, and go qualify 5 seconds faster than they practiced.
Which is why I said it's a shame. One track is forcing sweeping changes across the GTE landscape.
The new 991 Cup is testing, and you can be sure it will have a new DFI NA motor in it...no more mezger either. GT3R running new DFI NA motor against mid-engine turbo cars, and winning, why? Because of BOP. Rear engine, NA motor is competitive. Some tracks it's better, some it's not. Look at Blancpain, their BOP should probably be the template.
Trust me, all these crazy turbo motors are going to kill privateer racing. Why? Cost. Just go as Will Turner, he can't even run a weekend without having BMW factory support just for the motor alone. It's nuts. Wait until more GTD teams trying racing these turbo setups in enduro settings. Their fawking heads will spin.
We should all be thanking Porsche, Audi, and Lambo for still making and selling NA racecars.....
Yes, this whole factory Ford program is a 2 year deal.
I would certainly characterize a mid-engined turbocharged GT-based car as "innovative" in the modern era at Le Mans, as Ford and Ferrari *innovated* with that configuration this year and were vastly faster than the Porsches, which were only modestly evolved over the previous year's car.
So you're saying that until Le Mans of this year - a race which was took place less than two weeks ago - Porsche was leaning toward natural aspiration for the future GTE/GTLM contender, but Porsche has executed an abrupt about face since then?
While Porsche’s factory GTE-Pro effort in the FIA World Endurance Championship looks set to not continue in its current form next year, the German manufacturer is already hard at work on a new-generation GTE car that will debut in 2017.
Head of Porsche Motorsport Dr. Frank-Steffen Walliser has confirmed to Sportscar365 that an all-new Porsche 911 RSR is in the works, which is understood to feature some radical changes under the bodywork.
Walliser said development on the new car has been ongoing for the past six months, with plans to begin on-track testing by the middle of next year.
“It must be ready for ’17 so we must work like hell,” he told Sportscar365.
He would not comment on speculation that the engine, believed to be a turbocharged variant based off the Carrera model, will be moved forward in the car to provide a better weight balance.
It’s understood Porsche has proposed the mid-rear engine concept to the FIA, which would require technical waivers as the layout would differ from that of the road car.
“You always have to discuss your concept with the FIA and get the feedback from them to see if it fits,” Walliser said. “New ideas and innovative ideas and get feedback if it can be homologated or not. This is the process.”
Walliser did confirm that a bespoke mid-engine Porsche GTE car was in the pipeline, initially for 2016, but the decision was made to instead remain with a 911-based model instead.
“When I took over, we justified the technical concepts again,” he said. “I made some decisions but that delayed the program by approximately half a year.
“As you cannot do a mid-season entry, [the new car] will be for 2017… We have a high commitment to the 911. It’s our [key] sports car and it stands for Porsche.”
While 2017 race programs have yet to be confirmed, the new 911 RSR would presumably race in both the WEC and IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship.
Walliser, meanwhile, would not confirm reports of the factory Manthey WEC program taking a sabbatical but admitted they are working on different options for 2016.
One of them is understood to be a possible GTE-Pro entry entered by Proton Competition with factory support and drivers.
“Obviously WEC is a perfect platform,” Walliser said. “It’s a high profile racing series and we understand also that we belong to the series.
“We have to consider our overall situation. And when I say overall situation, it’s not related to the Volkswagen Group, it’s our overall situation in motorsports, including development of our new RSR in 2017, the new GT4 Clubsport, the new GT3 R and are heavily working on our street car development.
“All this we have to find the right priorities.”
Walliser said they have not yet decided whether they will field a factory GTE-Pro effort at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, potentially by CORE autosport, should the Manthey WEC program not continue.
Porsche’s 2016 program will be announced at its end-of-year dinner celebration event on Dec. 12.
Why not just endure one more year of Ford GT domination and then continue racing the same car they have now with incremental improvements until Jesus returns???
The above quote from FW shows that the 960 was being developed - but stopped for motorsport.
All of the changes are based on the new GTE technical regulations that were delayed by discussions to try to merge GTE and GT3. Those discussions failed - but now new regulations are in place. The rules favor turbos and both Ferrari and Ford built their cars to those regs. Porsche Motrosport indicated 3 or 4 years ago that they needed to build a new Motorsport engine but didn't want to invest the money until the new res were in place. Remails to be seen if it will be a variant of the 9a1.
06-29-2016, 09:43 AM
'17 RSR testing video
