GT3 versus GT3 RS: How much different?
01-31-2016, 05:48 PM
#1
GT3 versus GT3 RS: How much different?
I'm thinking about buying an RS.... I've already got a GT3, and I'm KEEPING it. Love it too much to even think about cutting it loose.
My question is for those who have owned/driven both the GT3 and the RS.
Relative to the GT3, how much different is the RS? Do you really feel the power difference? I've read that the grip in the RS is MUCH better than the GT3, is this true? Is the ride stiffer? Is the sound different? Louder? How are the overall handling dynamics of the RS vs the GT3??
I'd love to hear some comparison of the two from owners who have seat time in both...
Thanks in advance!
My question is for those who have owned/driven both the GT3 and the RS.
Relative to the GT3, how much different is the RS? Do you really feel the power difference? I've read that the grip in the RS is MUCH better than the GT3, is this true? Is the ride stiffer? Is the sound different? Louder? How are the overall handling dynamics of the RS vs the GT3??
I'd love to hear some comparison of the two from owners who have seat time in both...
Thanks in advance!
01-31-2016, 06:11 PM
#2
Racer
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Power feels relatively close to me on streets and I do notice the grip is def better than a GT3 especially at higher speeds around the corners.
Ride quality feels pretty much the same.
Your biggest issue will be trying to get a car that is marked up $100k over MSRP
Ride quality feels pretty much the same.
Your biggest issue will be trying to get a car that is marked up $100k over MSRP
01-31-2016, 06:21 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
The big question for me is which is it? Some video reviews comparing the two say the 3 is easier to drive and others say the RS is more stable and "planted" which inspires confidence.
01-31-2016, 08:06 PM
#4
I only drove it once at only at about 5/10ths on track.
At first blush, it felt IDENTICAL.
I had CSR exhaust, Forgeline wheels and Hoosier R7's, but the RS sounded almost as loud and visceral, so I probably won't change it.
We have ceramics on our RS and can't fit lower profile wheels but wonder if the RS w/ Hoosiers wouldn't smoke the GT3?
Trackcar runs the snot out of the RS and is running better times stock than I ever did w/ GT3 and Hoosiers at Sebring.
Never drove the GT3 on the street, so can't compare there. But, these LWB vs. 18 way adjustable are about as uncomfortable as my Recaro race seats.
At first blush, it felt IDENTICAL.
I had CSR exhaust, Forgeline wheels and Hoosier R7's, but the RS sounded almost as loud and visceral, so I probably won't change it.
We have ceramics on our RS and can't fit lower profile wheels but wonder if the RS w/ Hoosiers wouldn't smoke the GT3?
Trackcar runs the snot out of the RS and is running better times stock than I ever did w/ GT3 and Hoosiers at Sebring.
Never drove the GT3 on the street, so can't compare there. But, these LWB vs. 18 way adjustable are about as uncomfortable as my Recaro race seats.
01-31-2016, 08:26 PM
#5
Handling on the street very similar although the RS suspension is MORE compliant!! I promise! I drive it in firm setting all the time because it is close to the GT3's soft setting and because in soft setting, the suspension buttons more and you scrape more. I just posted my track experience today: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-my-hands.html
02-01-2016, 12:14 AM
#6
Race Director
Handling on the street very similar although the RS suspension is MORE compliant!! I promise! I drive it in firm setting all the time because it is close to the GT3's soft setting and because in soft setting, the suspension buttons more and you scrape more. I just posted my track experience today: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-my-hands.html
02-01-2016, 02:15 AM
#7
So now I'm just trying to figure out the value proposition of the RS... If a regular GT3 with exhaust and the right tires can keep up with the RS on the track, and sounds just as good as (if not better than) an RS, then maybe I'd be better off just getting GT3 and being done with it. Other than looks and exclusivity, what other value is the RS bringing over a regular GT3 that has been prepped just a bit?
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02-01-2016, 02:28 AM
#8
I suppose if you could get a MY2016 G GT3, then the engine is essentially as reliable as the RS for track work. The E may be problematic it seems, and the jury's still out on the F--compared to these years, you may be happier with an RS (even if Porsche makes good and fixes any damaged engines, there is the hassle factor)???
02-01-2016, 02:34 AM
#9
I suppose if you could get a MY2016 G GT3, then the engine is essentially as reliable as the RS for track work. The E may be problematic it seems, and the jury's still out on the F--compared to these years, you may be happier with an RS (even if Porsche makes good and fixes any damaged engines, there is the hassle factor)???
02-01-2016, 02:43 AM
#10
Race Director
^^ If anyone knows yet what all the differences are they haven't posted about it. From what's been revealed so far it seems that the F engines may have thicker/better coatings on the valve levers while the G engines have added a different oil filter, larger oil filter mounting neck, and an upgraded oil pump. There's some question as to whether the F and G engines share a similar ECU programming for increased oil pressure. Beyond that....
02-01-2016, 02:49 AM
#11
Thanks Mike, that's good info..... So then I guess the next question is: Did all 2015 GT3's get the F engine, and did all 2016 GT3's get the G engine? In other words, did the F-to-G upgrades occur right at the beginning of the 2016 run?
02-01-2016, 02:50 AM
#12
Race Director
i can't say on the road.. but on track i spent a day at AMP driving an RS, with more limited time in a gt3 (and a speciale and a 918). to me the RS had an incredible front end, grip for days.. that was the best part and it was my favorite car there. power didn't feel very different, no other differences at the small track i could tell between the two. but the RS front end feel and grip is very good on the track.. not sure if this is a meaningful difference on the road at all.
02-01-2016, 02:57 AM
#13
i can't say on the road.. but on track i spent a day at AMP driving an RS, with more limited time in a gt3 (and a speciale and a 918). to me the RS had an incredible front end, grip for days.. that was the best part and it was my favorite car there. power didn't feel very different, no other differences at the small track i could tell between the two. but the RS front end feel and grip is very good on the track.. not sure if this is a meaningful difference on the road at all.
02-01-2016, 02:58 AM
#14
No, the specifics are not yet entirely known. No PET for the 2016 GT3 or RS has been made public yet. But based on a bunch of discussion here on RL, it seems lubrication has been improved for the G (GT3 and RS) engines vs the E and F. Plus F and G may also have enhanced rocker arm coating using diamond-like carbon (DLC) film that may prevent scoring.
Here's my Coles notes version:
And, yes, for now it seems we are assuming the engine changes roughly follow model years: 2014 E, 2015 F, 2016 G. But when precisely the changes were introduced may actually not have coincided with the model year. We don't know yet.
Here's my Coles notes version:
We are taking a guess here but an educated one in assuming F engines received improved rockers and G received the oiling improvements that were tested on the RS development engines while the F engine was in production (Sept 2014-July 2015 roughly). Of course we may never know....
my educated guess here is the MA175 (GT3) engine in G series format is now the same engine as the MA176 (RS) engine sans the space material crankshaft and the obvious piston/rod/camshaft changes that reflect the capacity differences. So essenially they are the same engine but with one working to 9000 rpm and the other 8600 (8800 only gear 1 in manual).
That's very interesting and entirely plausible. It would be the G series engine they are referring to out of the three. It has the same oiling modifications as the RS engine I am told. However we don't know the specifics of what has been changed for certain yet.
F engines appear more durable with no firm recorded case of the same failure yet on these boards although we do have some interesting issues with a 2-3 units but I think unrelated and due to part or assembly defects.
It's pure supposition but I suspect they upgraded the rockers/cam shafts on the F engine to be more durable and made an ECU software tweak that improved overall oil pressure. If an E engine fails and they don't want to do a replacing of the engine they might send these improved parts to be fitted.
For G they appear to have gone further with lubrication finally bringing the MA175 (GT3) and MA176 (RS) engines effectively to the same spec other than capacity, Max rpm and heavy duty crank (one assumes).
From G onwards revisions to the MA175/6 engines will be based on learnings from the Motorsport engine which is a MA17x derivative...
F engines appear more durable with no firm recorded case of the same failure yet on these boards although we do have some interesting issues with a 2-3 units but I think unrelated and due to part or assembly defects.
It's pure supposition but I suspect they upgraded the rockers/cam shafts on the F engine to be more durable and made an ECU software tweak that improved overall oil pressure. If an E engine fails and they don't want to do a replacing of the engine they might send these improved parts to be fitted.
For G they appear to have gone further with lubrication finally bringing the MA175 (GT3) and MA176 (RS) engines effectively to the same spec other than capacity, Max rpm and heavy duty crank (one assumes).
From G onwards revisions to the MA175/6 engines will be based on learnings from the Motorsport engine which is a MA17x derivative...
02-01-2016, 03:24 AM
#15
So then the question is: Did the 3.8L G engine get the upgrades because it really needed them? Or did it get them because the 4.0L G needed them, but they wanted/needed to keep the parts consistent between both engines, so the 3.8L got the upgrades by default....