Originally Posted by dark knight

watches are like our cars cool mechanical things, no man should be without a Rolex, heres why, if I drop you into the middle of Africa Asia Detroit Chicago etc I bet you I can get you an AK and 500 rounds of ammo in trade for a Rolex, Timex I doubt I can trade it for a slingshot and what are you gonna do with an Iphone in Rwanda

Originally Posted by shapiroeric

That's an extremely bad example on why to own a watch....You honestly think if you're in one of those spots the locals will trade you a gun and ammo for a watch?.....you'll be lucky they don't amputate your arm when they take it from you....

Originally Posted by ir_fuel

Maybe you can add to your "rant" the fact that the cars have become too easy to drive? I followed a 991 GT3 on Spa today, in my 996 Cup car. Of course I was faster with mine but I followed it for a couple of laps just to check out the car. Long story short: it's ridiculous. Short story long: the guy was all over the place, the electronics saved his **** about 3 times the few laps I was behind him, he was missing apexes like a boss and took quite a lot of liberty in defining "corner entry". Result: he ran lap times that even a good driver in a 997 GT3 would never get to on the same track. There was a time when you needed to know how to drive in order to be fast in a 911. Then came the Nissan GT-R that allowed you to go fast with little effort. It seems the Nissan GT-R clients have a second option now, and it's being sold by Porsche ... I think I'm getting old :/

Originally Posted by Mr. Adair

So how fast can a great driver go in the new GT3 then? the car is better right?

Originally Posted by Tedster

For me owning a 996 GT3 was like being a member of a selective club. One that required sacrifices and special efforts to join. One that we could tell the motorsports department had helped create and was given more leeway in engineering than for decades in the USA. Yes, the clutch pedal was firm as was the suspension. Learning to drive it well on the track made me appreciate its talents and forced me to improve mine. It was closer to the cup race car than we had hoped it would be and never would be again. Talking to other 996 GT3 owners just confirmed it. The main topic was mods for enhanced track performance. If they were cup parts so much the better. I knew few people that didn't track their GT3 but they were the oddity.
The 997.1 GT3, with its sunroof, nicer interior and easier to live with suspension widened the membership but you still had to earn your spot in the (mostly) brotherhood. The 997.1 RS seemed to be built more for posers and collectors as it really didn't offer any more performance just wider hips and louder graphics. We welcomed them but most dropped out fearing damage to their precious toys. Those cars started the trend of low mileage being selling points rather than mods. They seemed more like special editions calculated by marketing and targeted to enhance the brand. A smaller percentage drove their cars on the track. Many used them as daily drivers, at least when weather allowed.
The 997.2, RS and 4.0 seemed to move the GT3 back to its roots as a barely housebroken race car. Although the higher priced RS and 4.0 was not often seen on track. More members, but a smaller percentage on track.

The 991 with its automatic transmission seemed to be an effort to split the difference even though for once the heart, the powerplant, was not really cup car related. An approachable GT3 for the masses, or at least the masses with the money to buy one. No sacrifice needed, stick it in auto to go for dinner or groceries. Only a few are used on track now beyond the green run groups. I hear complaints about the tire wear and fear of damaging their ceramic brakes. And resale...

So, the brotherhood has been diluted so that PCNA can move more product. I thought that was what the Cayenne was for. The marketing planners are in control and have broken down the psychological patterns of their GT target market so well. But they missed one thing, the club is now one I don't recognize. Conversations are more about future appreciation rather than apexes and tire pressures. Maybe the GT4 and clubsport will help start a new club. Hopefully they will build enough so that people will forget about treating them as virgins and drive the hell out of them. I can hope.

Originally Posted by 996tnz

Right on Tedster, and yours is the only post that's ever given me goosebumps reading it. If the decline ever get's to be too much for you, just come down to New Zealand where even the local 991 GT3s (and some 991 Turbo S too) regularly get a decent multiday track or closed rally roads thrashing. And even with older gear down here the first thing most owners look to do after a restoration is take their baby back out on track. Or call by anytime online. We tend to hang out here (apparently the longest thread on Rennlist): https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...land-2008.html

Originally Posted by Mr. Adair

I think Dark Knight was referring to the lasting ability of a Rolex to be an asset to you in a situation in which you have no currency. I'm a watch guy. Rolex has averaged a 12% increase over retail for a decade or more. Better than your retirement plan. And to his point, I agree completely. I have used my watch to test drive cars (when I had no license on hand ) buy dinner (when I forgot my wallet) etc. his comment is not that far fetched.

Originally Posted by aussie jimmy

don't forget that in vegas they charge 10% surcharge if you use your card.

Originally Posted by Drifting

Adair,

Can you clarify something for me. When you said 12% increase, do you mean that any rolex, (any model of Rolex) appreciates in value at least 12% a year? That increase isn't just limited to special Rolex editions?

Regarding your other points. I do see how the Rolex could be of value in those situations. However, none of those would apply to me.

I use my smart phone for everything and my iPhone is wrapped in an ultrathin case that also holds my credit card, drivers license, and health insurance card, so I'm ready for anything. As mentioned before my smartphone is my watch, portable labtop, day planner, GPS, navigation, etc all in one.
When I leave the house I have just two things in my pockets. My car keys and my iPhone(including the slim case I mentioned above), which has everything I could need to do anything in the country at any time. It's easy to not forget something at the house, when I only carry two things in my pockets everyday.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adair

Understood...

I think I mis-spoke

After closer inspection on my own purchases and retails over a 25 year span it looks more like 7% as an average appreciation. Some models might be higher but an average would be 7ish.

I use this site as well as others to look at values on the secondary market.

https://www.minus4plus6.com/


The site Minus4Plus6 has a table showing the price evolution of Rolex models over time. I took the prices for the 17 watches with the longest history of at least a couple decades and figured the annual growth rates. The average annual growth increase of the Rolex watches I looked at was 7.7% and the median was 7.3%. The low was at 4.9% and the high at 12%. 10 of the watches increases 7-8% range. In general looking at the price appreciation of the Rolex models it seems that a 7% annual increase in value is fairly typical. 7% annual increase is pretty good really. But there are various downsides to such a collectible investment to consider.

Don't hold me to EVERY Rolex. I would say 90% of their line (stainless sport models) fits this description...