Originally Posted by ScottKelly911

But let's just for a second pretend that everything being equal, and the GT3 ran 7:25 and the RS ran 7:20. Over the course of 12.93 miles, that amounts to the RS being only .3866 seconds faster per mile or an avg speed of 103.769 mph for the GT3 vs. 105.012 mph for the RS. that's just over a 1 1/2 mph avg for the entire course. The numbers are so close that only the very best drivers would be able to extract the difference between the two cars and more than likely, the "Layman" would not be able to see a difference in their times consistently between the two. Because they couldn't even extract what either one is fully capable of in the first place. Our 10/10ths is realistically still only most professional drivers maybe 7/10ths if that lol.

Originally Posted by Manifold

Simpler way to look at is that 5 secs at the 'ring translates to about 1 sec at a typical US track. That 1 sec is a noticeable difference, given how fast the regular GT3 is, though not a huge difference (putting Trofeo R on the car would probably get you that 1 sec).

I do think a very good non-pro hobbyist driver will notice that 1 sec difference, and such a driver should be able to get within 2 secs of pros on such tracks. Novice and intermediate drivers are a different story, and will be much slower.

Originally Posted by sccchiii

As I have stated before....Porsche has produced a time much better than 7:20 in current configuration RS. This was told to me by several people involved in RS program when I visited my uncle recently who has been with Porsche for over 30 years. I was stunned when car was launched and they stated the original 7:20 time from quite some time ago (very conservative)? So it won't be long after car starts showing up in people's garages that we will see a magazine or a professional driver post a better than 7:20 time in this RS. That all being said, the N-ring time cannot be compared to what car will or won't do time wise on u.s. tracks....way to many variables at play to start making those assumptions about a sec a lap but I guess we will soon see!

Originally Posted by BenDiem

As an FYI...

In one of the British PCar magazines I read this weekend, someone (name unrecalled) noted that the only 911 that will continue to be NA will be the
GT3RS. I read that as, the 991.2 GT3 will be powered by a turbo...

Food for thought. Carry on men...

Cheers,

B

Originally Posted by Manifold

Simpler way to look at is that 5 secs at the 'ring translates to about 1 sec at a typical US track. That 1 sec is a noticeable difference, given how fast the regular GT3 is, though not a huge difference (putting Trofeo R on the car would probably get you that 1 sec).

I do think a very good non-pro hobbyist driver will notice that 1 sec difference, and such a driver should be able to get within 2 secs of pros on such tracks. Novice and intermediate drivers are a different story, and will be much slower.

Originally Posted by Manifold

Official numbers from Porsche so far are 7:40 for GT4, 7:25 for GT3, and 7:20 for RS - suspiciously round numbers for all three, and I haven't seen any videos for these laps. But I would think that if 7:20 is conservative for the RS, 7:25 may also be conservative for the GT3 (and I think the GT4 is faster than 7:40).

Comparing lap time deltas at the 'ring versus most shorter tracks in the ~1:00 to 2:00 range, I've found a 5:1 ratio in the deltas to be a 'good enough' rule of thumb for most comparisons.

Originally Posted by NateOZ

Recall Randy's laptime at Big Willow for the GT3 vs 50th Anniversary edition:
GT3: 1:27.28
50th: 1:28.93

50th has P Zeros, so arguably can be even closer to the GT3 and for less money on the used market (especially a C2S with X51). Is that 1 second in the GT3 the reason people prefer it or is it the overall driving experience? I think everyone will say it's the later and it's everyone's own call if its worth the price difference for them (C2S with X51 to GT3 to GT3 RS).

Originally Posted by Manifold

I'm still perplexed by that rather small delta. As you note, tires alone can account for most of the difference. I'm wondering if the GT3 was truly optimized for that lap (hot tire pressures, correct alignment, etc.).

Can't speak for others, but I got the GT3 because it's the current 911 best suited for serious and prolonged track use.

Originally Posted by NateOZ

Hard to argue against this point - I have a GT3 in the garage and RS order at V200 status. I really can't see myself keeping the GT3 as a garage mate for the RS as I just don't see when I would want to drive it.

I'd rather get something different like the new R8, 488 GTB etc to go with the RS than keep it's weaker sister.

Originally Posted by hfm

Yeah, that was the question.

But, if value for money isn't considered how about Speciale v. GT3? The GT3 great because it can be compared to a Speciale that costs twice as much wouldn't you agree? If you asked, Speciale v. RS, value for money excluded, what answer?

I don't like a question that says value for money excluded because, that question only applies to people who have so much that it isn't relevant. And, that's not most people.

Dan (always considers value and always will)

Originally Posted by texas_maverick

Define "driver". On the track, they are both great. As a daily driver - neither; but, the non-RS would be my preference.

Originally Posted by tcsracing1

the Non RS is the better car to have as a daily driver.

Less in your face styling
Less intake noise
Less aero
Less rubber

all the reasons why the RS is in fact the better drivers car.

But realistically they are both so well matched that you would have to get them on the track to feel any performance improvment.

Originally Posted by kyrocks

Are you serious? Better 'driver's car'?

The RS does everything better, period. It is so much more of a driver's car and more rewarding to drive as well. Of course, I am basing this on 997. I have not driven the 991 RS.

Originally Posted by sportscentury

Yes, so not clear to me 1.2GT3 will top 1RS. Not even sure it will be N/A.

Originally Posted by thxbuff2001

Only time will tell if the RS would be a better car than the GT3. When you have an 991 RS and have lived with it for 2 years, then lets ask this question again.

My opinion is an RS would be better car 3 days a week and the GT3 4 days a week.

Originally Posted by mooty

if u really want a pure drivers car, that's somewhat moddern. get Gen1 miata.
or S2000.
nothing else comes close.

Originally Posted by ScottKelly911

Ok so here's my thoughts (which like everyone elses) based on pure speculation based on what's known, which is actually very little. NOBODY has driven a 991 GT3RS other than people who can't say a word because there livelihood depends on their ability to keep their lips pressed firmly together, and there haven't been any reviews as of yet. So there's really nothing yet to compare other than one figure...5 seconds faster around the Nordschleife than the 991 GT3. Let's dissect that. 1st, do we know who was behind the wheel? We know Timo Kluck was behind the wheel of the GT3. But on such a large course, even the same driver can have variations of lap times ranging as much as 10 seconds different on the same day, let alone on different days that may have differing conditions, temps and levels of grip. Also, the 3RS that was tested, was it still a test mule that may be different enough from the production car that it could be +/- a few seconds on the course? Too many variables, so when we see these awesome times at the 'ring, we do need to take them with a grain of salt. But let's just for a second pretend that everything being equal, and the GT3 ran 7:25 and the RS ran 7:20. Over the course of 12.93 miles, that amounts to the RS being only .3866 seconds faster per mile or an avg speed of 103.769 mph for the GT3 vs. 105.012 mph for the RS. that's just over a 1 1/2 mph avg for the entire course. The numbers are so close that only the very best drivers would be able to extract the difference between the two cars and more than likely, the "Layman" would not be able to see a difference in their times consistently between the two. Because they couldn't even extract what either one is fully capable of in the first place. Our 10/10ths is realistically still only most professional drivers maybe 7/10ths if that lol. That being said, that's just based on the VERY little information we have, which is honestly nothing more than a number figure that holds less water than a cheese grater. Once the numbers become more official and the RS gets into the hands of reviewers, then we'll know more and truly be able to say which is "Better" but for now, I'm simply more attracted to the RS's aesthetics, the use of exotic materials, love the Lava Orange and as a "Driver's" car, you have better visibility due to the rear wing being placed higher, but will the impending results of more road noise from bigger tires, stiffer ride from stiffer springs and road wander and chatter over bumps and tires following cracks in the road make it less of a "driver's" car? we'll see! I guess the answer in short is, If I could have the RS vs. 3, yes I'd do it in a hot minute. Will it necessarily be more rewarding to drive, no.

Originally Posted by shapiroeric

The GT3 is only better if you can't get an RS....

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR

Wrong, old 911.