PCNA will be kicking themselves for this one
04-17-2014, 05:26 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Maybe it hadnt hurt their sales yet, but eventually it can/will catch up if things like this continue. Up until now Porsche has always been known for it's reliability. But several of my friends who arent very knowledgable about Porsches have asked me about "all the Porsche fires" they ask me because they know I'm a Porsche fanatic and am pretty knowledgable about them. I explain that it was only 2 cars out of a run of nearly 800 and they recalled all the others and they're getting new engines because of a manufacture defect. It puts them a little more at ease and have a better understanding. I digress, the point is that non-Porsche people are talking about this stuff and if it continues, then Porsche could get a reputation for unreliable cars. If that happens sales wont drop tomorrow or the next day. But you could see future sales slide. The fact that Porsche's sales have increased substantially over the last 10 years has everything to do with entering previously untapped vehicle markets, namely the Cayenne and Panamera. Take those two vehicles away from the lineup and their production levels are probably similar to the heart of the 80's.
04-17-2014, 05:38 PM
#18
The general public doesn't know any of the above. 50,000 Macan are projected to sell this year. Think they know or care? Cayenne buyer? No.
That kind of stuff is only known to a decimal point percentage of typical Porsche buyers. That's why Porsche gets away with stuff like this.
That kind of stuff is only known to a decimal point percentage of typical Porsche buyers. That's why Porsche gets away with stuff like this.
She bought a new (early) 2011 Cayenne only to find the later models were upgraded to bigger (better) brakes due to consumer complaints re: wear and excessive brake dust (I had to clean the wheels every 2 days max). When we took it in for 2 year service, we were notified that we needed a $3k brake job (apparently Cayenne rotors are made of cardboard) in addition to the $200 oil change. When she inquired re: and upgrade to the later/better brakes she was told to pay the bill...no consideration. The next day she drove off in a new X5...you know, the one with 300 lb ft of torque at 1300rpm AND free maintenance (including oil changes, belt service, rotors-pads-fluid) for 4 years.
She likes the BMW much better (better visibility, more power/torque, much nicer interior) and as the accountant for our family appreciates the ZERO cost other than tires for the next 4 years. I'm sure she's not the only one...
Bill
04-17-2014, 05:57 PM
#19
I worked for corporate America for over 25 years and I can tell you this thing will only get worse.
PAG/PCNA needs to have a serious and realistic look at their QC and more importantly their crisis response. I can think of four VERY BIG VERY BAD examples from the past few years:
1) M96 IMS fiasco, that ended with a class action lawsuit (Porsche lost)
2) Major QC issues on GT cars that were totally ignored by Porsche and/or blamed on the customer (RMS leaks, coolant fitting leaks, exploding clutch, airbox and the whole CL issue)
3) 991 GT3...need I say more ??
4) Above video
If these issues (and the underlying cause) are not addressed quickly and honestly they only snowball. Even non owners begin to connect the dots. Porsche sells great sports cars and rebadged VW SUV's at very high margins because of their history of high performance, on-track race results and reliability on track (ie both enthusiast and endurance racing). Once that is lost, the customer--even those that have owned them for 34+ years (yours truly)--begin looking elsewhere. With BMW offering 4 years free maintenance (including brake rotors/pads/fluid) and Ferrari with 7 year free maintenance, there are simply too many other good cars to choose from.
Bill
PAG/PCNA needs to have a serious and realistic look at their QC and more importantly their crisis response. I can think of four VERY BIG VERY BAD examples from the past few years:
1) M96 IMS fiasco, that ended with a class action lawsuit (Porsche lost)
2) Major QC issues on GT cars that were totally ignored by Porsche and/or blamed on the customer (RMS leaks, coolant fitting leaks, exploding clutch, airbox and the whole CL issue)
3) 991 GT3...need I say more ??
4) Above video
If these issues (and the underlying cause) are not addressed quickly and honestly they only snowball. Even non owners begin to connect the dots. Porsche sells great sports cars and rebadged VW SUV's at very high margins because of their history of high performance, on-track race results and reliability on track (ie both enthusiast and endurance racing). Once that is lost, the customer--even those that have owned them for 34+ years (yours truly)--begin looking elsewhere. With BMW offering 4 years free maintenance (including brake rotors/pads/fluid) and Ferrari with 7 year free maintenance, there are simply too many other good cars to choose from.
Bill
Ask my wife, who was a 2-time Cayenne buyer
She bought a new (early) 2011 Cayenne only to find the later models were upgraded to bigger (better) brakes due to consumer complaints re: wear and excessive brake dust (I had to clean the wheels every 2 days max). When we took it in for 2 year service, we were notified that we needed a $3k brake job (apparently Cayenne rotors are made of cardboard) in addition to the $200 oil change. When she inquired re: and upgrade to the later/better brakes she was told to pay the bill...no consideration. The next day she drove off in a new X5...you know, the one with 300 lb ft of torque at 1300rpm AND free maintenance (including oil changes, belt service, rotors-pads-fluid) for 4 years.
She likes the BMW much better (better visibility, more power/torque, much nicer interior) and as the accountant for our family appreciates the ZERO cost other than tires for the next 4 years. I'm sure she's not the only one...
Bill
She bought a new (early) 2011 Cayenne only to find the later models were upgraded to bigger (better) brakes due to consumer complaints re: wear and excessive brake dust (I had to clean the wheels every 2 days max). When we took it in for 2 year service, we were notified that we needed a $3k brake job (apparently Cayenne rotors are made of cardboard) in addition to the $200 oil change. When she inquired re: and upgrade to the later/better brakes she was told to pay the bill...no consideration. The next day she drove off in a new X5...you know, the one with 300 lb ft of torque at 1300rpm AND free maintenance (including oil changes, belt service, rotors-pads-fluid) for 4 years.
She likes the BMW much better (better visibility, more power/torque, much nicer interior) and as the accountant for our family appreciates the ZERO cost other than tires for the next 4 years. I'm sure she's not the only one...
Bill
Interesting that you bring this up. I never mentioned all the problems I had with my 2011 Cayenne Turbo. Rotors on that were sure as hell made of cardboard. So was the rear differential, taillights, and the air suspension pump. It was a joy to have the a/c compressor kick off below 32f so as to insure a completely fogged windshield at the very worst possible times (driving down the interstate with snowing). There's more but frankly it makes me depressed to remember it all.
Ditto with the GT3RS, the GT2RS and Boxter Spyder. The 4.0 was fortunately troublefree.
Look, don't upset all the hopers, wishers and dreamers here. When fantasy is at hand, no one wants the icy douche of previous owners real-life experiences. We are all just trolls and "non-stakeholders".
04-17-2014, 08:13 PM
#21
I wouldn't go so far as to say that, and I suspect you were being facetious 
however the general perception is at odds with the reality of ownership. There are plenty of quality issues and maintenance costs are ridiculous. And don't get me started on the marketing...
however the general perception is at odds with the reality of ownership. There are plenty of quality issues and maintenance costs are ridiculous. And don't get me started on the marketing...
04-17-2014, 08:28 PM
#22
Not sure if this has been noted with respect to Nick's situation, but...looks like there's finally a resolution...
I just watched Nick's video again--a box popped up saying: "Update: Porsche have contacted me and will be refunding my money or replacing the car."
I just watched Nick's video again--a box popped up saying: "Update: Porsche have contacted me and will be refunding my money or replacing the car."
04-17-2014, 08:51 PM
#23
I'm glad to hear Nick is (hopefully) being made whole...but why did he have to go through this ?
there are certainly 2 sides to every story but as mentioned earlier, PAG/PCNA are stepping over dollars to get to dimes. If, after multiple attempts, they couldn't make the car right they should have given him new car or full refund with a sincere apology...and had a customer for life. Like my wife, he will probably never look at P again.
Did I mention I've bought 2 new BMW's in the past year ? Those certainly would have been Porsche purchases had Porsche made an effort on the Cayenne (ie parts at discount, labor, etc). Instead...well you know the story. 34 years, 11 Porsche's and over $1M of my hard earned money spent; what price loyalty ?
Bill
there are certainly 2 sides to every story but as mentioned earlier, PAG/PCNA are stepping over dollars to get to dimes. If, after multiple attempts, they couldn't make the car right they should have given him new car or full refund with a sincere apology...and had a customer for life. Like my wife, he will probably never look at P again.
Did I mention I've bought 2 new BMW's in the past year ? Those certainly would have been Porsche purchases had Porsche made an effort on the Cayenne (ie parts at discount, labor, etc). Instead...well you know the story. 34 years, 11 Porsche's and over $1M of my hard earned money spent; what price loyalty ?
Bill
04-17-2014, 11:31 PM
#24
Run.
Run very far away.
Best of luck, Saint Nick.
Choke much, Porschwagen Cars of North America?
,
Run very far away.
Best of luck, Saint Nick.
Choke much, Porschwagen Cars of North America?
,
Last edited by JohnnyBahamas; 04-18-2014 at 06:34 PM. Reason: to add Cars of North America to Porschwagen.
04-17-2014, 11:44 PM
#25
Have you guys seen the u-tube of "United you broke my guitar". This went viral, launched the bands career and United wishing they had taken care of the problem in the beginning. These guys never learn.... Way to go Nick
04-18-2014, 02:08 AM
#26
Drifting
They're snakes and the dealers are even worse!
I just LOVE handing over my keys to some gump loser with prison tats on his knuckles when I drop my car off for service, catching a service advisor in a blatant lie about a CPO question, etc., etc.
I was at the PCA club race at Road Atlanta a few weeks ago. Essentially everyone there was the RL/PCA archetype, and PCNA couldn't give two ****s about any of them/us.
I just LOVE handing over my keys to some gump loser with prison tats on his knuckles when I drop my car off for service, catching a service advisor in a blatant lie about a CPO question, etc., etc.
I was at the PCA club race at Road Atlanta a few weeks ago. Essentially everyone there was the RL/PCA archetype, and PCNA couldn't give two ****s about any of them/us.
04-18-2014, 04:33 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
The general public doesn't know any of the above. 50,000 Macan are projected to sell this year. Think they know or care? Cayenne buyer? No.
That kind of stuff is only known to a decimal point percentage of typical Porsche buyers. That's why Porsche gets away with stuff like this.
That kind of stuff is only known to a decimal point percentage of typical Porsche buyers. That's why Porsche gets away with stuff like this.
Porsche havent had 1,000,000 customers since they started.
Im proud of my Kiwi cousin for standing up and doing this!
Someone on here should make a video of themselves sitting in their 991 GT3 with a fire suit and extinguisher making "broom broom" sounds and put it on youtube and Im sure we could get above 500,000 in no time!
04-18-2014, 07:59 AM
#29
Race Car
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What Porsche has truly been reliable though? Not the 996. There were a ton of non GT motor failures with the IMS. Now coolant issues. The 997 continued the coolant tradition and added some exploding pressure plates and clutches etc. I'm pretty sure the boxster and Cayman had some motor issues to. Now the 991 with its issues. Maybe the Cayenne? Panamera?
