911rox

I'd say the answer is simply that its a domestic grade motor designed to reduce costs and not a commercial grade motor designed to take the punishment in a race environment... Keep in mind that in 2010 they raced a 997.2 RS on slicks in the NBR24 and it finished in the front half of it's class against cup cars, now slicks can't even be used on the car let alone any suggestions of repeating the publicity stunt...

alpine-al

As I understand it (and I could be wrong), the current GT regulations, which are used in both FIA WEC and IMSA GT, had a two year freeze on newly homologated cars. The two year freeze covers 2013 and 2014. Cars were allowed to be updated once during the freeze before the end of 2013. But any homologated parts couldn't be changed with the update. The 911 RSR was Porsche's homologated car for 2013. Porsche did the updates to the RSR before the race at Bahrain in late 2013. That is the car that will be raced in 2014.

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tmg57

Looks like you are right. I thought the rebuild issue might be a factor in the decision, but you and Serge have put that to rest.

I have asked people who, I'm sure, do know the reason behind the engine decision but have never received any more than vague answers. Of course, all of the people are connected to Porsche.

tmg57

Maybe that explains it, but no one from Porsche has mentioned the new rules. If homologation is the issue, they should just say so and everyone will be happy. Maybe, no one can understand the rules...

2.2.2.5 Except for safety or reliability reasons, only one evolution per period of 2 years is permitted before
the first event of the season in which the homologated model is entered.
The period of restriction will begin for 2014 model cars; it will be the same for every car.
A car homologated in previous years can use this evolution under the following conditions:
• Changes are made on the car by the Manufacturer or Tuner who homologated this car,
• The car thus modified is identical to the latest version of the homologated car

jumper5836

Thats not what Flat6 innovations are saying, Locasil is the problem in m96/m97 engines but 9A1 and Cayenne engines use Alusil. I also have to add that they are seeing these problems from regions where is does get driven in the cold.

alpine-al

I know that I don't understand them.

In the February 2014 issue of Excellence magazine, Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport, discussed these homologation rules and the affect on the 911 RSR as well as some indirectly related affects on the GT/AM and GT3 Cup cars. He didn't specifically discuss engines.

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tmg57

Thanks, I'll look for the article.

Mike in CA

Tom, my understanding is that the Mezger is homologated until 2015. There may be other reasons why the 9A1 GT3 motor hasn't been raced yet (the normal 9A1 is being used in some series) but since the GT3 version just went into production 4 months ago, enough examples may not have been produced far enough in advance to satisfy the regulations. With regard to Porsche "announcing" why they are doing what they're doing, it's been my observation that they're very careful about what they do and don't say about their racing plans.

I don't know the answers, but things are rarely as simple as some folks like to make them.

Serge944

IMO, of course - Porsche used the Mezger in the race cars because it has a long track record. They know its shortcomings, what to expect, and it's been evolved over many years.

The 9A1 made it into the GT3 because it puts the GT3 and the drivetrain on the same assembly line as every other 911, using the same tooling. This production benefit isn't all that important to their race program.

Whether or not the 9A1 would make a good or bad race engine has nothing to do with it. I don't think Porsche even truly knows... It's just not proven.

brake dust

There is no FIA regulation that is restricted the 9A1 engine from racing in FIA or ACO racing today. The technical regulations are in place. The 991 conforms to those regulations. What Hartmut Kristen indicated is that Porsche was not willing to invest millions into a new motorsport engine until the new 2015/2016 technical regulations are in place. The FIA is attempting to consolidate both the ACO and the FIA GT3 regulations into one GT class. Right now, there are different rule sets for FIA GT3 racing and ACO Le Mans GT racing.

ChrisF

Interesting thread. Anyone know what a 9A1 GT3 short block is going to cost?

JasonAndreas

MSRP is below and figure maybe knocking 20-30% from that at Sunset Imports or the like.


9A1-100-975-AX $30079.61 - Remanufactured
9A1-100-975-00 $75722.11 - New

Usually the price on engines is somewhat reasonable for the first few years of production (964 - $5k : 993 - $8k - 996 - $5k) and then once the replacement warranties expire the price goes through the roof but this time around Porsche is going for it straight out of the gate!

Serge944

Complete GT engines from Porsche are very expensive, and it's typically cheaper to pay for a complete overhaul.

The prices for a 991 GT3 case are not in PET yet, but I'm ballparking it at $6-8,000.

Airbag997

Does anyone know if the 991.2 GT3/RS cylinder lining is back to nikasil or some speacial sauce derivative of nikasil? Literature states "new lower friction" cylinder lining. Wondering if they realized alusil was less robust than nikasil, and have gone back?

Cay_PI

991.2 still has no liners. They introduced a iron surface brought in the cylinders by rotating single wire method with the 9A2 engines (3.0 Turbo). The 9R1.5 enignes (991.2 GT3) use the same technology. So the surface is iron but no liners. In case of failure, liners can be put in like in the pure alusil motors. It has some advantages (softer metarial for the block vs. pure alusil so cheaper tooling, better friction) and some disadvantages (coating can fail, some cases with rust). The newer alusil motors are very reliable.

This all has nothing todo with nikasil. The motor is still alusil. And the new coating is not GT3 specific.