Cylinder bore linings Nikasil or Alusil
#16
Rennlist Member
I'd say the answer is simply that its a domestic grade motor designed to reduce costs and not a commercial grade motor designed to take the punishment in a race environment... Keep in mind that in 2010 they raced a 997.2 RS on slicks in the NBR24 and it finished in the front half of it's class against cup cars, now slicks can't even be used on the car let alone any suggestions of repeating the publicity stunt...
#17
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#18
I'd say the answer is simply that its a domestic grade motor designed to reduce costs and not a commercial grade motor designed to take the punishment in a race environment... Keep in mind that in 2010 they raced a 997.2 RS on slicks in the NBR24 and it finished in the front half of it's class against cup cars, now slicks can't even be used on the car let alone any suggestions of repeating the publicity stunt...
I have asked people who, I'm sure, do know the reason behind the engine decision but have never received any more than vague answers. Of course, all of the people are connected to Porsche.
#19
As I understand it (and I could be wrong), the current GT regulations, which are used in both FIA WEC and IMSA GT, had a two year freeze on newly homologated cars. The two year freeze covers 2013 and 2014. Cars were allowed to be updated once during the freeze before the end of 2013. But any homologated parts couldn't be changed with the update. The 911 RSR was Porsche's homologated car for 2013. Porsche did the updates to the RSR before the race at Bahrain in late 2013. That is the car that will be raced in 2014.
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2.2.2.5 Except for safety or reliability reasons, only one evolution per period of 2 years is permitted before
the first event of the season in which the homologated model is entered.
The period of restriction will begin for 2014 model cars; it will be the same for every car.
A car homologated in previous years can use this evolution under the following conditions:
• Changes are made on the car by the Manufacturer or Tuner who homologated this car,
• The car thus modified is identical to the latest version of the homologated car
#20
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
It is NOT Alusil that is causing failures - it's Locasil.
Even if it was, I think it's a moot point. The components in a 991 GT3 engine will reach their endurance limit and require rebuild before the coating becomes an issue, especially with the kind of use most cars will be subject to.
Even if it was, I think it's a moot point. The components in a 991 GT3 engine will reach their endurance limit and require rebuild before the coating becomes an issue, especially with the kind of use most cars will be subject to.
#21
In the February 2014 issue of Excellence magazine, Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport, discussed these homologation rules and the affect on the 911 RSR as well as some indirectly related affects on the GT/AM and GT3 Cup cars. He didn't specifically discuss engines.
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#22
I know that I don't understand them.
In the February 2014 issue of Excellence magazine, Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport, discussed these homologation rules and the affect on the 911 RSR as well as some indirectly related affects on the GT/AM and GT3 Cup cars. He didn't specifically discuss engines.
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In the February 2014 issue of Excellence magazine, Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport, discussed these homologation rules and the affect on the 911 RSR as well as some indirectly related affects on the GT/AM and GT3 Cup cars. He didn't specifically discuss engines.
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Thanks, I'll look for the article.
#23
Race Director
I don't know the answers, but things are rarely as simple as some folks like to make them.
#24
Rennlist Member
IMO, of course - Porsche used the Mezger in the race cars because it has a long track record. They know its shortcomings, what to expect, and it's been evolved over many years.
The 9A1 made it into the GT3 because it puts the GT3 and the drivetrain on the same assembly line as every other 911, using the same tooling. This production benefit isn't all that important to their race program.
Whether or not the 9A1 would make a good or bad race engine has nothing to do with it. I don't think Porsche even truly knows... It's just not proven.
The 9A1 made it into the GT3 because it puts the GT3 and the drivetrain on the same assembly line as every other 911, using the same tooling. This production benefit isn't all that important to their race program.
Whether or not the 9A1 would make a good or bad race engine has nothing to do with it. I don't think Porsche even truly knows... It's just not proven.
#25
As I understand it (and I could be wrong), the current GT regulations, which are used in both FIA WEC and IMSA GT, had a two year freeze on newly homologated cars. The two year freeze covers 2013 and 2014. Cars were allowed to be updated once during the freeze before the end of 2013. But any homologated parts couldn't be changed with the update. The 911 RSR was Porsche's homologated car for 2013. Porsche did the updates to the RSR before the race at Bahrain in late 2013. That is the car that will be raced in 2014.
In the February 2014 issue of Excellence magazine, Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport, discussed these homologation rules and the affect on the 911 RSR as well as some indirectly related affects on the GT/AM and GT3 Cup cars. He didn't specifically discuss engines.
#26
Rennlist Member
Interesting thread. Anyone know what a 9A1 GT3 short block is going to cost?
#27
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
MSRP is below and figure maybe knocking 20-30% from that at Sunset Imports or the like.
9A1-100-975-AX $30079.61 - Remanufactured
9A1-100-975-00 $75722.11 - New
Usually the price on engines is somewhat reasonable for the first few years of production (964 - $5k : 993 - $8k - 996 - $5k) and then once the replacement warranties expire the price goes through the roof but this time around Porsche is going for it straight out of the gate!
9A1-100-975-AX $30079.61 - Remanufactured
9A1-100-975-00 $75722.11 - New
Usually the price on engines is somewhat reasonable for the first few years of production (964 - $5k : 993 - $8k - 996 - $5k) and then once the replacement warranties expire the price goes through the roof but this time around Porsche is going for it straight out of the gate!
#28
Rennlist Member
The prices for a 991 GT3 case are not in PET yet, but I'm ballparking it at $6-8,000.
#29
Rennlist Member
Does anyone know if the 991.2 GT3/RS cylinder lining is back to nikasil or some speacial sauce derivative of nikasil? Literature states "new lower friction" cylinder lining. Wondering if they realized alusil was less robust than nikasil, and have gone back?
#30
991.2 still has no liners. They introduced a iron surface brought in the cylinders by rotating single wire method with the 9A2 engines (3.0 Turbo). The 9R1.5 enignes (991.2 GT3) use the same technology. So the surface is iron but no liners. In case of failure, liners can be put in like in the pure alusil motors. It has some advantages (softer metarial for the block vs. pure alusil so cheaper tooling, better friction) and some disadvantages (coating can fail, some cases with rust). The newer alusil motors are very reliable.
This all has nothing todo with nikasil. The motor is still alusil. And the new coating is not GT3 specific.
This all has nothing todo with nikasil. The motor is still alusil. And the new coating is not GT3 specific.