Test drove a 991 Turbo S today
01-18-2014, 07:12 PM
#16
Had a 997 GTSRS and one of the best cars I've owned. I've had two 458 Coupes, and they are wonderful cars, but not nearly as intimate and communicative as the finest of Porsche's GT3s. Remember, Porsche markets and sells the Turbo as a massively quick grand tourer. Boring is actually okay when one is straight lining it between Paris and Frankfurt.
I'm genuinely interested in the new GT3, but like many others, am still mourning the loss of the manual transmission.
If you want some serious emotion, and don't mind a DCT Transmission, the SLS AMG Black Series is stupendous. The shifts are lightening quick, and I have a huge smile on my face every time i hit the loud pedal. You've got to drive it to believe it, but they are so rare that I'm afraid they will remain virtually unknown.
991 GT3 may be the next great step in Porsche lore, or it may send us all searching for the 997 GT3/RS manual as the last great analog driving experience.
BTW, if you want to talk emotion, drive a Carerra GT. Makes the 458 feel like a Camry by comparison.
I'm genuinely interested in the new GT3, but like many others, am still mourning the loss of the manual transmission.
If you want some serious emotion, and don't mind a DCT Transmission, the SLS AMG Black Series is stupendous. The shifts are lightening quick, and I have a huge smile on my face every time i hit the loud pedal. You've got to drive it to believe it, but they are so rare that I'm afraid they will remain virtually unknown.
991 GT3 may be the next great step in Porsche lore, or it may send us all searching for the 997 GT3/RS manual as the last great analog driving experience.
BTW, if you want to talk emotion, drive a Carerra GT. Makes the 458 feel like a Camry by comparison.
01-18-2014, 11:59 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
I think Mitty is on the same page. The 458 (and all ferraris I've driven) are theatrical, but not terribly accurate or communicative. I struggled with the throttle timing, which felt disconnected and less immediate than I wanted. CCB braking was really surprising...granted the brakes were cold, but the pedal was so stiff that it was really uninspiring. Perhaps something was wrong with the brakes on the used 2011 I drove.
I've heard so much about the 458 tranny, but honestly it felt overly dramatic and not that precise. Steering, which seems to be a constant area of criticism (too fast), actually felt very good to me.
Porsches - especially Spyder, R, RS, GT3 have extremely accurate and intimate response.
It's interesting how cultures are expressed in automobiles. Ferrari is flamboyant and Italian. Porsche is precise and German. I guess it should be no surprise.
These were just my immediate perceptions without spending enough time in the 458. Perhaps I need to spend far more time in the car pushing the envelope and learning it's intricacies. Generally though, I seem to know if I love or hate a car quickly. I walked away scratching my head a bit.
I'm now awaiting a 991 GT3 delivery and am hoping for the best. As Mitty says, my concern is that the Pcars have lost something this generation. I drove a 991S and was quite disappointed. Fingers crossed for the GT3
From everything I've read, a Carrera GT is probably my perfect street car...but to my earlier point, you'll never know until you drive it.
I've heard so much about the 458 tranny, but honestly it felt overly dramatic and not that precise. Steering, which seems to be a constant area of criticism (too fast), actually felt very good to me.
Porsches - especially Spyder, R, RS, GT3 have extremely accurate and intimate response.
It's interesting how cultures are expressed in automobiles. Ferrari is flamboyant and Italian. Porsche is precise and German. I guess it should be no surprise.
These were just my immediate perceptions without spending enough time in the 458. Perhaps I need to spend far more time in the car pushing the envelope and learning it's intricacies. Generally though, I seem to know if I love or hate a car quickly. I walked away scratching my head a bit.
I'm now awaiting a 991 GT3 delivery and am hoping for the best. As Mitty says, my concern is that the Pcars have lost something this generation. I drove a 991S and was quite disappointed. Fingers crossed for the GT3
From everything I've read, a Carrera GT is probably my perfect street car...but to my earlier point, you'll never know until you drive it.
01-19-2014, 01:04 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Rob, ever grab a tiger by the tail? Having spent considerable time behind the wheel of a CGT that is what you will get. Fantastic car if you can tame it. Good luck with that.
01-19-2014, 01:15 PM
#19
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I think Mitty is on the same page. The 458 (and all ferraris I've driven) are theatrical, but not terribly accurate or communicative. I struggled with the throttle timing, which felt disconnected and less immediate than I wanted.
Porsches - especially Spyder, R, RS, GT3 have extremely accurate and intimate response.
It's interesting how cultures are expressed in automobiles. Ferrari is flamboyant and Italian. Porsche is precise and German. I guess it should be no surprise.
These were just my immediate perceptions without spending enough time in the 458. Perhaps I need to spend far more time in the car pushing the envelope and learning it's intricacies. Generally though, I seem to know if I love or hate a car quickly. I walked away scratching my head a bit.
I'm now awaiting a 991 GT3 delivery and am hoping for the best. As Mitty says, my concern is that the Pcars have lost something this generation. I drove a 991S and was quite disappointed. Fingers crossed for the GT3
Porsches - especially Spyder, R, RS, GT3 have extremely accurate and intimate response.
It's interesting how cultures are expressed in automobiles. Ferrari is flamboyant and Italian. Porsche is precise and German. I guess it should be no surprise.
These were just my immediate perceptions without spending enough time in the 458. Perhaps I need to spend far more time in the car pushing the envelope and learning it's intricacies. Generally though, I seem to know if I love or hate a car quickly. I walked away scratching my head a bit.
I'm now awaiting a 991 GT3 delivery and am hoping for the best. As Mitty says, my concern is that the Pcars have lost something this generation. I drove a 991S and was quite disappointed. Fingers crossed for the GT3
It's like comparing the finest built 2-way audiophile monitors to a huge multi- driver surround system complete with wicked subs. Transparency and intimacy v. theatrics.
IMO.
01-19-2014, 02:24 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I share some of the above comments. Although I disagree about the 458 throttle response. I feel it is much better than the Porsche's. The steering is also lighter, but very accurate and sensitive. The car is more "theatrical" and I enjoy that. I'm not sure if "disconnected" is the right word above. Less "raw" in ways, yes. The Ferrari experience is more an emotional one with definite performance to back up the subjective feel. Honestly, I am getting bored of new Porsche models. I am hoping the new GT3 RS brings back that fire. I sound like I'm old, but I'm not.
01-19-2014, 04:34 PM
#21
I just finished Ferraris drivers school at COTA. A 458 is ba$$s to the wall. I also own one. An incredible car. It doesn't make me like my 991TT any less just a different flavor. I had a GT3RS and have a GT3 coming. Another flavor. People who disparage any of these cars usually haven't driven one much. The are all fantastic. It makes me laugh when people disparage any of these cars.
01-19-2014, 05:50 PM
#23
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I am a total pussycat when it comes to driving cars. And would choose the Turbo S over the GT3. Especially living in LA/OC counties I can figure on the number of times I would need to change the front splitter. And... I like Ferraris; it's just I am more of a Porsche person. I expect my cars to turn on when I turn the keys, not have to wait for the tow truck to take them to the nearest service center - Though I do, and I really mean it, see myself in an AWD V12 FF or the V12 Berlinetta. The F458 seems to be too much of a toy to me.
Going back years and years why do you think Ferrari included a tool kit in their cars, so you could work on them on the side of the road. These days 99% of the kids wouldn't know what to do with a spanner. Besides with all the electronic Nannies and DO-DADS keeping folks from spinning the ole` prancing horse off the course you need a master degree to even know what is going on. But I do enjoy watching the Shows on SyFy showing how the cars are made. Lets just say that Ferraris and British Morgan Aero 8s are still in different centuries. But then again you can tell where the money is being spent.
Now if only Caterham can wake-up from it's slumber and become the next Red Bull like Red Bull because the next Red Bull!
Going back years and years why do you think Ferrari included a tool kit in their cars, so you could work on them on the side of the road. These days 99% of the kids wouldn't know what to do with a spanner. Besides with all the electronic Nannies and DO-DADS keeping folks from spinning the ole` prancing horse off the course you need a master degree to even know what is going on. But I do enjoy watching the Shows on SyFy showing how the cars are made. Lets just say that Ferraris and British Morgan Aero 8s are still in different centuries. But then again you can tell where the money is being spent.
Now if only Caterham can wake-up from it's slumber and become the next Red Bull like Red Bull because the next Red Bull!
01-19-2014, 05:53 PM
#24
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I am a total pussycat when it comes to driving cars. And would choose the Turbo S over the GT3. Especially living in LA/OC counties I can figure on the number of times I would need to change the front splitter. And... I like Ferraris; it's just I am more of a Porsche person. I expect my cars to turn on when I turn the keys, not have to wait for the tow truck to take them to the nearest service center - Though I do, and I really mean it, see myself in an AWD V12 FF or the V12 Berlinetta. The F458 seems to be too much of a toy to me.
Going back years and years why do you think Ferrari included a tool kit in their cars, so you could work on them on the side of the road. These days 99% of the kids wouldn't know what to do with a spanner. Besides with all the electronic Nannies and DO-DADS keeping folks from spinning the ole` prancing horse off the course you need a master degree to even know what is going on. But I do enjoy watching the Shows on SyFy showing how the cars are made. Lets just say that Ferraris and British Morgan Aero 8s are still in different centuries. But then again you can tell where the money is being spent.
Now if only Caterham can wake-up from it's slumber and become the next Red Bull like Red Bull because the next Red Bull!
Going back years and years why do you think Ferrari included a tool kit in their cars, so you could work on them on the side of the road. These days 99% of the kids wouldn't know what to do with a spanner. Besides with all the electronic Nannies and DO-DADS keeping folks from spinning the ole` prancing horse off the course you need a master degree to even know what is going on. But I do enjoy watching the Shows on SyFy showing how the cars are made. Lets just say that Ferraris and British Morgan Aero 8s are still in different centuries. But then again you can tell where the money is being spent.
Now if only Caterham can wake-up from it's slumber and become the next Red Bull like Red Bull because the next Red Bull!
01-19-2014, 06:08 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Modern ferraris have come a long way and are much more reliable than they used to be. So much so, that I'm still considering a 458 in the near future.
However, I would NEVER say that a Ferrari is as reliable as Porsche.
Porsche is clearly more more reliable than a Ferrari. Porsche's do have their problems, but people actually drive their Porsches and most most Ferrari's are garage queens.
If you drive a Porsche or a Ferrari the same way for 30,000 and 80,000 miles, the Porsche would have fewer problems than the Ferrari to 30,000 miles,
and far far fewer problems to 80,000 miles
However, I would NEVER say that a Ferrari is as reliable as Porsche.
Porsche is clearly more more reliable than a Ferrari. Porsche's do have their problems, but people actually drive their Porsches and most most Ferrari's are garage queens.
If you drive a Porsche or a Ferrari the same way for 30,000 and 80,000 miles, the Porsche would have fewer problems than the Ferrari to 30,000 miles,
and far far fewer problems to 80,000 miles
Last edited by Drifting; 01-19-2014 at 06:09 PM. Reason: .
01-19-2014, 06:18 PM
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Modern ferraris have come a long way and are much more reliable than they used to be. So much so, that I'm still considering a 458 in the near future.
However, I would NEVER say that a Ferrari is as reliable as Porsche.
Porsche is clearly more more reliable than a Ferrari. Porsche's do have their problems, but people actually drive their Porsches and most most Ferrari's are garage queens.
If you drive a Porsche or a Ferrari the same way for 30,000 and 80,000 miles, the Porsche would have fewer problems than the Ferrari to 30,000 miles,
and far far fewer problems to 80,000 miles
However, I would NEVER say that a Ferrari is as reliable as Porsche.
Porsche is clearly more more reliable than a Ferrari. Porsche's do have their problems, but people actually drive their Porsches and most most Ferrari's are garage queens.
If you drive a Porsche or a Ferrari the same way for 30,000 and 80,000 miles, the Porsche would have fewer problems than the Ferrari to 30,000 miles,
and far far fewer problems to 80,000 miles
do you have serious supporting evidence for this claim or is it your gut feeling?
01-20-2014, 10:47 AM
#30
I tend to agree and also feel that way. But I am thinking about the Gt3 because something prevents me from using the 458 as a daily beater which is how I would like to use the gt3. I can handle the stiff suspension, loud sound etc.. i just don't like to worry about parking.
To sum it, I would like an emotional daily beater if that makes any sense.
To sum it, I would like an emotional daily beater if that makes any sense.
Just let me know when you need a 993 and I will take that horrible 458 off your hands.