Warning on R compound tire
#46
Tom, the discussion was here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...ck-manual.html
There is new wording that suggests Porsche won't void the warranty unless certain more stringent maintenance requirements for track use are not followed.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...ck-manual.html
There is new wording that suggests Porsche won't void the warranty unless certain more stringent maintenance requirements for track use are not followed.
The 911 manual states that "the fitting of racing tires for sporting events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering speeds can be achieved with racing tires. The resulting transverse acceleration values would jeopardise (sic) the adequate supply of oil to the engine".
From this we can infer (not really, but just for fun):
1. The GT3's true dry sump works better than the 991's integrated dry sump (no surprise) and,
2. The 911 has stronger chassis and body components. Hmmmm..... maybe there is something to that RWS rumor after all.
#47
The decision on what's really covered under warranty and what isn't will come down to your relationship with the dealer and your dealer's relationship with PCNA/PAG, etc. The manual wording will only come into play if you go to court or when your local dealer doesn't play ball. In both of the latter cases, it's pretty tough for the little guy to win.
#48
Thanks, Mike. I recall it now. I reread the maintenance recommendations from the GT3 book and noticed the wording about slicks. Porsche was very straightforward in stating that slicks are prohibited because "they subject the chassis and body components to potentially higher loads than those for which they are designed".
The 911 manual states that "the fitting of racing tires for sporting events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering speeds can be achieved with racing tires. The resulting transverse acceleration values would jeopardise (sic) the adequate supply of oil to the engine".
From this we can infer (not really, but just for fun):
1. The GT3's true dry sump works better than the 991's integrated dry sump (no surprise) and,
2. The 911 has stronger chassis and body components. Hmmmm..... maybe there is something to that RWS rumor after all.
The 911 manual states that "the fitting of racing tires for sporting events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering speeds can be achieved with racing tires. The resulting transverse acceleration values would jeopardise (sic) the adequate supply of oil to the engine".
From this we can infer (not really, but just for fun):
1. The GT3's true dry sump works better than the 991's integrated dry sump (no surprise) and,
2. The 911 has stronger chassis and body components. Hmmmm..... maybe there is something to that RWS rumor after all.
But could it just be that PAG didn't build the car around slicks and wants to wash their hands of part failure if the extra loads did cause a problem. But that's different than guaranteeing a problem.
I'm certain that some people reading this will run slicks at some point. Unfortunately that puts us all in beta test mode, looking to the aftermarket to fix weaknesses if they do arise.
#49
#50
Race Director
Thanks, Mike. I recall it now. I reread the maintenance recommendations from the GT3 book and noticed the wording about slicks. Porsche was very straightforward in stating that slicks are prohibited because "they subject the chassis and body components to potentially higher loads than those for which they are designed".
The 911 manual states that "the fitting of racing tires for sporting events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering speeds can be achieved with racing tires. The resulting transverse acceleration values would jeopardise (sic) the adequate supply of oil to the engine".
From this we can infer (not really, but just for fun):
1. The GT3's true dry sump works better than the 991's integrated dry sump (no surprise) and,
2. The 911 has stronger chassis and body components. Hmmmm..... maybe there is something to that RWS rumor after all.
The 911 manual states that "the fitting of racing tires for sporting events is not approved by Porsche. Very high cornering speeds can be achieved with racing tires. The resulting transverse acceleration values would jeopardise (sic) the adequate supply of oil to the engine".
From this we can infer (not really, but just for fun):
1. The GT3's true dry sump works better than the 991's integrated dry sump (no surprise) and,
2. The 911 has stronger chassis and body components. Hmmmm..... maybe there is something to that RWS rumor after all.
The 991 GT3 warranty booklet says the following:
Components and/or parts that fail during racing or driving events (including Porsche sponsored events) may not be covered by the new car Limited Warranty. (My emphasis)
The language in the warranty booklet for my 997.2 Carrera used the exact same wording, except that "will not" was substituted for "may not".
This seems consistent with the wording in the Race Circuit booklet that came with the 991 GT3 that suggests that coverage may be continued as long as certain enhanced maintenance procedures are followed. And, apparently, as long as you don't use slicks.
#52
sunnyr
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I wonder how Porsche will know if some one uses slicks and swaps them out? Record G forces?
Exactly what i was going to ask. I doubt there is really a way for them to tell. some drivers drive harder than others and would generate more G Forces. some on slicks don't generate as much as some drivers on DOT R's
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I wonder how Porsche will know if some one uses slicks and swaps them out? Record G forces?
Exactly what i was going to ask. I doubt there is really a way for them to tell. some drivers drive harder than others and would generate more G Forces. some on slicks don't generate as much as some drivers on DOT R's
#53
fixed it for you.
#54
Former Vendor
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Copy/pasted from the Hoosier website:
WARNING NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE
NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE: All Hoosier Racing Tires including DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires are designed for racing purposes only on specified racing surfaces and are not to be operated on public roadways. DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires meet Department Of Transportation requirements for marking and performance only and are NOT INTENDED FOR HIGHWAY USE. It is unsafe to operate any Hoosier Racing Tire including DOT tires on public roads. The prohibited use of Hoosier Racing Tires on public roadways may result in loss of traction, unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure, resulting in a vehicle crash and SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.
WARNING NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE
NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE: All Hoosier Racing Tires including DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires are designed for racing purposes only on specified racing surfaces and are not to be operated on public roadways. DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires meet Department Of Transportation requirements for marking and performance only and are NOT INTENDED FOR HIGHWAY USE. It is unsafe to operate any Hoosier Racing Tire including DOT tires on public roads. The prohibited use of Hoosier Racing Tires on public roadways may result in loss of traction, unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure, resulting in a vehicle crash and SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH.
It usually says " not for highway use" on the side of a Hoosier.
#55
Burning Brakes
DOT=department of transportation. Not for highway use is different than not for street use generally. Racing tires are not DOT approved that is the clear and simple distinction, this has been litigated although a while ago, and have not found the info recently. If a tire is DOT approved and is really just used for racing its still a street tire by definition. There was also a GTR lawsuit about this concerning Toyo R888s that was settled around tranny failures. The normal caveats apply about getting info from forums and you should use your own discretion but to the OPs original post, the SC2 is an R compound tire so your dealer is either ignorant of the terminology or misinformed from their source.
#56
Rennlist Member
DOT=department of transportation. Not for highway use is different than not for street use generally. Racing tires are not DOT approved that is the clear and simple distinction... If a tire is DOT approved and is really just used for racing its still a street tire by definition.
#57
Burning Brakes
It's not my definition, it's the department of transportation's. If a tire is "DOT approved", it's approved for use on the street. The tire manufacturers know what they'll really be used for and do just enough to get them approved so they can be run in street tire racing classes, that is the genesis of the "R" compound tire. They will advise against it in the more focused tires because of their construction they are more susceptible to road debris and at highway speeds they lack the reinforcement to hold together as well as other modern belted tires. It's a CYA statement. Where Porsche makes the distinction though, is a whole other ball of wax.
#59
Rennlist Member
008 definitions of DOT etc are accurate IMO. How PAG see "racing tyres" is a barrel of worms. Dan39 point is most pertinent. In our country they have to prove something you fitted after market causes the issue you are claiming warranty. You put an aftermarket face plat on an iphone and the RF module fails and the phone manufacturer cant blame the face plate and refuse warranty. Seems logical....
#60
Rennlist Member
Seems pretty simple to me - if a manufacturer advertises a tire for street use, you have legal ground to stand on. If a manufacturer makes it clear a tire is to be used on track only, it is going to be a steep uphill battle to get warranty coverage for a part failure related to increased cornering loads, etc.
DOT tires conform to labeling requirements, but a tire designed for racing is dangerous on the street, and vice-versa. Local law determines street legality regarding tread depth; it may not take many revolutions for a "street legal" DOT racing tire to become illegal for street use, regardless of labeling.
DOT tires conform to labeling requirements, but a tire designed for racing is dangerous on the street, and vice-versa. Local law determines street legality regarding tread depth; it may not take many revolutions for a "street legal" DOT racing tire to become illegal for street use, regardless of labeling.