blake

Volvo provides airfare for two R/T to Sweden for Euro delivery. And as Chromium pointed out earlier, Porsche seemed to be the ONLY German manufacturer who actually charged for Euro delivery until just recently... BMW would actually discount the car further (5-8% off sticker based on model)

To the OP - push back HARD. And as Mike suggested, I'd pay the $3k out of pocket just to make it happen. I bought a 911 on credit card once, and to make that happen needed to pay the transaction fees...

-B

Seth Thomas

I have heard it is because the car gets imported as a used car so the import taxes are less/different. They pass the savings on to the customer.

Z356

The 'directions', or general guidelines, that PAG & PCNA would like dealers to follow are mostly voluntary. Dealers are independent businesses and they can chart their own course on matters such as to absorb the cost of European Delivery or pass it on to a customer. If you contact PCNA, that is what they will probably tell you.


I don't think that is the case with the gt3's. A sales person at Sonnen has addressed that on this thread (extra Turbo or Turbo S). Otherwise, every Porsche dealer in the US would be requesting gt3's under the Euro Delivery 'loophole' (if such existed).

That used to be true in years past. And how part of the savings was realized, both for individual customers bringing their European vacation cars into the US or the US importer under the European Delivery Program. That loophole has been closed by US Customs.

To give you a sense of why all of these programs got started, excuse me if I have to delve into a little history of the European Delivery at Porsche. From my many conversations with old timers in Porsche 356 circles, I have concluded that the impetus for the European Delivery Programs developed within West German economic planners that were desperately trying to come up with new ways to help West German economic recovery after WWII. Not only did West Germany needed to find new overseas clients for its re-emerging auto industry, but Germans needed to encourage international travel to the homeland. Of course, the principal purpose for the latter was reaping the financial benefits of tourism. Foreigners needed to know that West Germany was no longer 'bombed out" and in ruins. They were rebuilding a flourishing tourism industry to compete with those of France, Italy and Britain for the traveling tourists, mainly North & South American at the time.

But equally important, Germans hoped that the inter-action with foreigners would help transform its international 'political' reputation after the bad press generated by the war & its 'ancien' Nationalist Socialist regime. By the mid-fities, West Germany had established a thriving democracy and the government was anxious to have that fact known and experienced by as many foreigners as possible, especially Americans who held the reins of political power and wealth after WWII. As a result, the West German government gave its auto manufacturers a monetary incentive (probably tax related) for each German car sold & delivered to a foreigner in Germany.

The ED program was a great success and became part of the myth now known as the 'Wirtschaftswunder' or German Economic Miracle, the successful era of Chancellor Konrad Adenauer and his savvy Economic Minister at the time, Ludwig Erhard. In the early days, no auto maker made better use of marketing the benefits & savings of the European Delivery Program than tiny Porsche. Bill Sholar, founder of the Porsche Club of America, started putting together 'Treffens' in the late fifties that organized factory tour & European deliveries of 356's to its members. Sometimes fifty and more 356s at a time were factory delivered to these Americans arriving via a charter flight to Stuttgart!

As the German car industry matured & prospered, and the peaceful & democratic reputation of West Germany was established in the world beyond reproach, the favorable tax treatments or incentives were perhaps reduced by the German government. In addition, US Custom change the rules so that its import tax on a vehicles with travel mileage was not different from those with zero or few miles. Yet, regardless these measures which limited the advantages of ED to the manufacturers, BMW and Mercedes have never stopped offering substantial savings on their European Delivery Programs! Porsche, on the other hand, stopped offering them altogether (certain years) or charged a premium to their customers for the service (as at present).

Lets be specific about the true cost to the German auto manufacturer for European Delivery. The sea-borne shipping from Germany to North America remains a constant, regardless ED. The additional costs involve providing registration and insurance, plus getting the car from the drop-off locations (used to be Harms, the freight forwarder. Now is another similar company) to Bremerhaven Port. And the auto companies have made some cut-backs in this area. The registration & insurance used to be for one month. It has now been reduced in most programs to 14, 15 or 16 days (although you can pay for additional time). The one night stay at a hotel and taxi voucher to the factory is not that significant, but is something extra that they normally offer.

I assume that there is still some incentive from the German government to the German auto industry that helps fund the additional costs for the European Delivery Programs at BMW. This program is available for all other makers too - Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW. Yet only a few have the mind-set (marketing benefit down the road for the goodwill generated) or the physical resources to profit from it. Mercedes has a luxurious ED facility at their principal Sindelfingen factory outside Stuttgart (photo 1). BMW has just built their magnificent BMW Welt in Munich. They are both geared for European Delivery to Americans, although their facilities primary job is to deliver Mercedes and BMW's to their European customers! In Europe, customers placed orders at dealers but often take delivery at the car factories. Other manufacturers are gearing up for ED. Audi's US ED program has just recently started at their vast Ingolstadt Forum (photo 2)!

Porsche, on the other hand, has a relatively cramped vehicle delivery area at Zuffenhausen, which can barely can accommodate factory deliveries to Germans and other EU citizens that request it (photo 3 of its entrance). Its upstairs delivery area can hold very limited number of cars per day! This is probably one of the principal reasons why Porsche is not really pushing its ED program. They don't have the physical space to make European Delivery to Americans a success at the present time. That might change as they acquire more space across the tracks from the new Porsche Museum. But for the time being, this space limitation is probably the single biggest drawback to expanding their European Delivery Program! When they do, I expect they will offer greater incentives to create more demand for it. Even at an extra expense to you as the customer, European Delivery is a 'must do' for every Porsche enthusiast at least once in your lifetime!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS Photos taken during my recent auto manufacturers tour in April, 2013!

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CAlexio

Eduardo.. Your contributions are always a great value-add. Thank you.

911Jetta

+911!!!!!!

JohnnyBahamas

Beat me to it.

Eduardo, you rock.

skuplist

I only was able to get my GT3 as a European delivery. The dealer had already sold their entire allocations when I gave them a deposit. I specifically requested European delivery and when Porsche came back they realized their European delivery allocations were over and above their normal allocations. I believe dealers get a certain amount of European allocations for any cars they choose. I don't believe European delivery is a normal request by customers.

skuplist

Not sure but I think Porsche offers European delivery to its dealers on a first come basis since they can only do so many per year.

JimSand

Thank you very much for all of the great input and knowledge that all of you have shared. I will use this information when speaking with the General or Regional Manager. However, I do wish that the dealer had been honest and up front with me, like they were with Drifting. I could have then made a decision to pay or not pay the $8000 out-of-pocket and not been given some BS story that it is too much of a liability, where the GT3 can get damaged while it’s in my possession and/or in transition back to the states.

As a business owner, I agree 100% with Brett at Sonnen Porsche. Since I am already a customer of theirs at the Land Rover Dealership, you would think that as a local customer, who runs a local business, that they would want to strengthen our business relationship and not be greedy and untruthful.

Thank you, and I look forward to reporting back to you guys with a positive outcome, now that I have the knowledge needed to move forward regarding my approach with the ED.

Jim

disden

I am in the same situation. Porsche denied my Euro Delivery request. I have a Turbo Cab allocation and the request was made above the 12 week time frame, but Porsche claims they are "too busy that week". My dealer is actually great, really working hard to make arrangements for me, but so far the problem had been on Porsches side.

Sad, I really wanted to take delivery on my vacation! We are trying to explain that I don't need the whole tour, lunch and hotel treatment. I just took the factory tour a few months ago, and this will be my 3rd 991 so I don't need a tour of my new car. I simply want to sign the papers and drive to Baden Baden!

Tacet-Conundrum

Not terrible one bit especially getting an allocation on a higher margin car.

<3mph

Disden, I think Eduardo may have a point about limited physical space. When we did our ED a few weeks ago, the room where cars were actually picked up was completely jam packed. I can't see how they could have added additional customers' cars that day. Perhaps Porsche does have limits on how many ED cars can be processed at a time and are almost always at capacity. FWIW, we requested ED about a half year in advance and were successful. It's unfortunate that you may not be able to go since it's an amazing experience to be able to drive through Europe with your car. Baden-baden is quite special, and the Black forest too. Perhaps someone will cancel, or perhaps you can see about adjusting your travel dates a little in hopes that a spot will come free? May be tricky though, particularly if it's in peak tourism season. Good luck!

disden

Yes, I am hopeful someone will cancel at this point. Porsche came back last night and got within 4 days of my desired date, however it is logistically not going to work. My wife is giving a lecture in Italy, the plan is to pick up the car and drive it down through Switzerland into northern Italy for 5 days prior to her lecture. Unfortunately it would be complicated to head all the way back up to Germany to get the car, then go back to Italy! The driving doesnt bother me, I just don't think my wife would be too thrilled if I ditched her to get my car! We will see what happens.

TRAKCAR

To OP: You need a new dealer. This one lies.

They also offer additional insured time in Europe, as long as its less than 6 months.

I doubt I will ever buy a new car unless its ED.
Make a nice summer out of it and blast through Europe for 3-4 months (A week or 2 at the time) is the only way I can justify the depreciation over a CPO.

Mercedes has the best programs I think 7% off MSRP including options, BMW I was told by one dealer (Probably wrong) that only the base MSRP qualifies, but not the options. My M3 will be 62K msrp and $85K with options, so I am looking to see what Mercedes comes up with for a C63 and when.

Audi's website is not clear, You have to inquire but there isn't an Audi that I am in the market for.

Porsche gives the least, no discount, no airfare but better than the $4600 they wanted to charge me for ED of my 2010RS. It was built in Feb 2010 and there was 2' of snow at the Ring at that time, so I cancelled.

<3mph

disden: aha, I see. I know there is an option to drop off the car at an alternative location (neither of the 2 usual ones in Germany) for a fee. Perhaps it can be picked up from an Italian location too? PM'd you the email for the ED specialist.