The GT3 wins CAR Magazine's "Best of 2013" Group Test
09-29-2013, 04:04 PM
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09-29-2013, 04:35 PM
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09-29-2013, 05:13 PM
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in think evo did that comparism and the GT3 was either as fast as the MP4-12C or even slightly faster, don't remember which one. but was does that tell? about nothing in real life terms.
i remember one of these recent group tests where the toyota GT86 won against super cars. best driver's car on topgear i believe. another one of those stupidities.
again, the GT3 is a great car, and mighty fast. but it is not in the league of supercars, neither esthetically nor emotionally. and btw, the turbo S is probably faster than the F458, the MP4-12C etc but it is not a supercar either. both are, hmmm, porsches....for the good and the bad. certainly great to drive, unobtrusive to look at (except the rear wing which looks a bit like east LA body shop) and rather common on the street. at least the GT3 revs high and sounds good (hmmmm, not as good as a flat crank 8 cylinder fezza though) and is very reasonably priced.
also let us not forget that the GT3 comes with cup tyres as standard, which certainly influences the tests. once rain comes down GT3's will be overtaken by audi A3's and toyota prius....
i reiterate, i really like the GT3 and came very close to ordering one but still let us
keep things straight.
peter
i remember one of these recent group tests where the toyota GT86 won against super cars. best driver's car on topgear i believe. another one of those stupidities.
again, the GT3 is a great car, and mighty fast. but it is not in the league of supercars, neither esthetically nor emotionally. and btw, the turbo S is probably faster than the F458, the MP4-12C etc but it is not a supercar either. both are, hmmm, porsches....for the good and the bad. certainly great to drive, unobtrusive to look at (except the rear wing which looks a bit like east LA body shop) and rather common on the street. at least the GT3 revs high and sounds good (hmmmm, not as good as a flat crank 8 cylinder fezza though) and is very reasonably priced.
also let us not forget that the GT3 comes with cup tyres as standard, which certainly influences the tests. once rain comes down GT3's will be overtaken by audi A3's and toyota prius....
i reiterate, i really like the GT3 and came very close to ordering one but still let us
keep things straight.
peter
If you're trying to say that the 458 will beat out the GT3 in comparos then you'll be wrong about that.
The 458 is able to be priced at 2x GT3 pricing because of perceptions about the brand and curb appeal and that won't win comparos.
09-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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The fact that the 3 isn't 'supercar' whatever that means, is a good thing to me. Supercars are often associated with poseurs. How many aventadores will show up at a track day? I left Ferrari b/c, in part, I appreciate and enjoy the more utilitarian, daily usable and trackable package of the modern porsche.
-----------------
Bottom line the most compelling thing about the 'rankings' isn't the ranking. It's the editorial commentary about the personality of the different cars and porsche's uncanny ability to make such a precise, compelling machine.
With the C4S this good the 3 is going to rock it.
09-29-2013, 06:58 PM
#22
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Do I want one? Nope. Still like the 991C2S more. Lusting for GT3.
09-29-2013, 07:22 PM
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There was a bumblebee yeller one and a blue one at the ALMS race last weekend. They aren't bad looking. Not terribly inspiring, however, at least for me. Interior better than expected. Seats looked better than the lazy boy recliners in the past but still not near Porsche-level in terms of bolsters. But the market demographic is much different (as reflected by the crowd in the vette tent vs. the porsche tent) and that market probably would favor lazy boy recliners.
09-30-2013, 01:33 AM
#25
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in think evo did that comparism and the GT3 was either as fast as the MP4-12C or even slightly faster, don't remember which one. but was does that tell? about nothing in real life terms.
i remember one of these recent group tests where the toyota GT86 won against super cars. best driver's car on topgear i believe. another one of those stupidities.
again, the GT3 is a great car, and mighty fast. but it is not in the league of supercars, neither esthetically nor emotionally. and btw, the turbo S is probably faster than the F458, the MP4-12C etc but it is not a supercar either. both are, hmmm, porsches....for the good and the bad. certainly great to drive, unobtrusive to look at (except the rear wing which looks a bit like east LA body shop) and rather common on the street. at least the GT3 revs high and sounds good (hmmmm, not as good as a flat crank 8 cylinder fezza though) and is very reasonably priced.
also let us not forget that the GT3 comes with cup tyres as standard, which certainly influences the tests. once rain comes down GT3's will be overtaken by audi A3's and toyota prius....
i reiterate, i really like the GT3 and came very close to ordering one but still let us
keep things straight.
peter
Most people would agree the italia does sound great, just like my Korg keyboard. But frankly i still prefer a Steinway baby.
09-30-2013, 03:51 AM
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anyway, i would have gone for the RS right away (and lived with aftermarket parking sensors.....i live in a big city) since it is (will be i mean) very special but in comparison to the GT3 the fezza wins in all domains MHO, particularly in long journeys and daily usability (concluding what i read in tests). anyway, those comparos are useless, both (as well as the MP4-12C) are highly desirable cars.
peter
09-30-2013, 05:30 AM
#27
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Peter. You don't need to defend your choice of the F458 - its a really great car. However its a bit hard to justify any comparisons between the F438 and the new GT3 (or RS) and at this time only a sellect few motor scribes have actually driven the car and none that I know for long journeys of as a daily driver yet. If its a daily driver you are after I would have thought the stock GT3 would have been a better choice than the Fezza (attracts a lot of unwanted attention, very low etc) and the RS (again more compromised suspension and attention grabbing etc).
Anyway, I dont think you need to justify your purchase of the F458. Its quite a different proposition to a 911 GT3 regardless of price. The GT3 is a "tool car" and the Fezza is "automotive jewelry/art". Its the difference between a Rolex Stainless Submariner and an Ulyssis Nardin Maxi Marine Diver in gold.
Anyway, I dont think you need to justify your purchase of the F458. Its quite a different proposition to a 911 GT3 regardless of price. The GT3 is a "tool car" and the Fezza is "automotive jewelry/art". Its the difference between a Rolex Stainless Submariner and an Ulyssis Nardin Maxi Marine Diver in gold.
09-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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Peter. You don't need to defend your choice of the F458 - its a really great car. However its a bit hard to justify any comparisons between the F438 and the new GT3 (or RS) and at this time only a sellect few motor scribes have actually driven the car and none that I know for long journeys of as a daily driver yet. If its a daily driver you are after I would have thought the stock GT3 would have been a better choice than the Fezza (attracts a lot of unwanted attention, very low etc) and the RS (again more compromised suspension and attention grabbing etc).
Anyway, I dont think you need to justify your purchase of the F458. Its quite a different proposition to a 911 GT3 regardless of price. The GT3 is a "tool car" and the Fezza is "automotive jewelry/art". Its the difference between a Rolex Stainless Submariner and an Ulyssis Nardin Maxi Marine Diver in gold.
Anyway, I dont think you need to justify your purchase of the F458. Its quite a different proposition to a 911 GT3 regardless of price. The GT3 is a "tool car" and the Fezza is "automotive jewelry/art". Its the difference between a Rolex Stainless Submariner and an Ulyssis Nardin Maxi Marine Diver in gold.
here is where i disagree - and i think there is a general misconception involved: i bought the F458 because of its DD-ability. it does attract attention, certainly more than the GT3. but it has a rearview camera and front/rear parking sensors, which the GT3 does not have (aftermarket is rather crappy i hear and porsche makes warranty problems if you fiddle with the electronics). also, i am sure that the F458 sits higher than the GT3. i can cross most speed bumps without even using the front lift system, my guess is this would not work on the GT3. in fact, the MP4-12C gave me a lot of issues during testing over speed bumps, i touched down quite a few times. and then the F458 comes on bespoke MPS tires, not on cups which is another big issue in DD-ability.
here is where i agree: the comparism is sort of useless, both are great cars and you have phrased it very well in terms of watches. i believe that porsche has done miracles in creating the 991 GT3 and i am expecting even more from the RS -albeit with even further restricted DD-ability.
cheers, peter
09-30-2013, 11:53 AM
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my 458 (with factory pickup) was about 25% more expensive than a lesser specced GT3. if i'd tried to match the specs the difference would have come down to less than 20%. certainly part of this is due to the fact that the fezza dealer was much more generous on my M5 F10 trade-in than the porsche dealer and that there was pressure on the former to sell.
anyway, i would have gone for the RS right away (and lived with aftermarket parking sensors.....i live in a big city) since it is (will be i mean) very special but in comparison to the GT3 the fezza wins in all domains MHO, particularly in long journeys and daily usability (concluding what i read in tests). anyway, those comparos are useless, both (as well as the MP4-12C) are highly desirable cars.
peter
anyway, i would have gone for the RS right away (and lived with aftermarket parking sensors.....i live in a big city) since it is (will be i mean) very special but in comparison to the GT3 the fezza wins in all domains MHO, particularly in long journeys and daily usability (concluding what i read in tests). anyway, those comparos are useless, both (as well as the MP4-12C) are highly desirable cars.
peter
Now, you are entitled to your opinion (although the bias of course is to believe that people buy Ferraris to drive slowly along the boulevard in a misguided attempt to look cool, because that's where most of them are spotted while GT3s are most frequently seen at the track).
The point, though, is that the consensus coming out of comparos is going to be that the GT3 is better. That's because (1) it's as fast or faster, while providing a great sensory experience and (2) it's almost half the price.