orthojoe

Nothing wrong with having an option. They're not giving it to you, so you are trashing people who are going with it anyway.

I surrender. This is battle that just can't be won. It was silly of me to try.

Mike in CA

Just to clarify, the new forged 20's are lighter than the previous cast 19's. Could they have made forged 19's? Sure. But having seen the new 410mm PCCB's in person I think it's questionable whether the front calipers would clear 19's. At best the clearance would be very close. It might not all be a gimmick.

wanna911

Yes, Porsche has not been exactly great with lightweight wheels.

But then there are the tires, which could very likely add weight. And the hub itself, which was not lighter in the Gen 1. And the fact that there just aren't race tires for 20" wheels. So why a mandatory race looking setup for wheels that don't have race tire options or will be racing?

There is no real world benefit of the CL's in this application. You'll be lucky not to be at a disadvantage by having to pay big bucks to swap them after tracking a couple of times. And lucky if they are reliable.

20 inch Centerlocks on a street car are a self contradictory concept.

wanna911

Mike in CA

I'm not arguing for the CL's. Just saying with regard to 20's, that there might be an issue with brake clearance with a smaller wheel. FWIW, most all of the high end manufacturers are making the same mistake if that's any consolation.

When I bought my 3.2 Carrera in '84 it was the first 911 to come with 16's and no one made appropriate track tires for them either. The 20's may not be here yet (of course neither is the car) but they'll come.

tmg57

I'm not an engineer so I need help with this: Is there any reason that we should expect that CL wheels would be inherently prone to failure? Obviously, there were problems with the 997 wheels, but it seems excessively skeptical to assume that Porsche's engineers haven't solved that issue.

911rox

Exactly! lmao...

It ain't cool unless you're going sideways off the track on 3 wheels... To go back on CL only would be an admission by Porsche that they f%&ked up with the 997.2... History shows us they never admit fault...

Petevb

The things 5 lugs have going for them is redundancy (no single point of failure) and experience (6 decades of real world results in the field). However just because that's the way things have always been done doesn't mean there isn't a better way. Given recent experience I expect the new CLs to be pretty bulletproof, but likely still harder to use for the average Joe than 5 lugs.

MaxLTV

5 lug nuts are 1) safer; 2) easier to use; 3) minimize chance/role of human error; 4) make car useable by more people/mechanics;

Centerlocks - require a special skill only few truly mastered

Reminds me of another debate waging on this forum ;-)



I kid, I kid - do not take this seriously, meant only as comical relief

Tacet-Conundrum

So Dammit, who is going.to be the first to swap out to five lug? Shouldn't be that tough beyond finding the right parts to swap. How hard can it be?

skuplist

So what is the "special skill" as well as the tools to take the wheels off and back on again?

tmg57

Thanks, Pete, it appears you're on a roll with good posts lately. This one is atypical of what we're seeing on RL in that it gives due consideration to both sides of an issue and allows that taking either side might not be a criminal offense.

In any case, I don't care whether 5 lugs are better than CL's, or not. I guess I'm just wondering why some people are so skeptical about Porsche's ability to competently redesign a defective component. Until I read all of the negative posts about CL's, it never occurred to me that Porsche would continue to manufacture the same defective wheels through two generations.

If they're a little harder to use, that should be ok with most of the guys in the other thread who've been arguing for thirty pages for the right to work harder driving the car...

ShakeNBake

1. They designed a defective, core to safety, product in the first place
2. They denied there was an issue despite several recalls/service actions, and dozens of incidents
3. They blamed their customers (which is partly true IMO)
4. They claimed they didn't intend it to be used at the track, on a car that is marketed as a track car
5. They distanced themselves legally from the problem instead of fixing it in the field with a redesigned product

it's a circle of trust thing

tcsracing1

the GT3 is "CL only" due to the idea that it is designed to be the "motorsport derived" street car and marketed as such. (Baby Cup).

The carrera and turbo get the 5 lugs and the available centerlock option for those who like gimmicks....

tmg57

LOL