EVO (UK) Full GT3 Test
08-10-2013, 01:24 PM
#31
Any idea how I can get a copy? In the US I don't think any of the local places has it on the rack, anyone know of a chain that carries it?
I checked into the digital subscription, it would begin with issue 188, not the current 187. I'd happily buy the subscription if I could get the current issue.
Checked "back issues" they start at 185, ugh.
Ryan
I checked into the digital subscription, it would begin with issue 188, not the current 187. I'd happily buy the subscription if I could get the current issue.
Checked "back issues" they start at 185, ugh.
Ryan
08-10-2013, 01:53 PM
#32
Race Director
My point is that higher the capability of the car, generally the less engaging it will be at realistic road speeds (I don't condone unsafe driving on the road, and have no interest in going to jail); the 997 is a rare semi-exception. The C63 proves to not be very capable on the track, but does well on the road. All indications are that the GT3 will be uber capable on the track, and just plodding along on the road (just like the regular 991 or 991S). The reviewers that we've seen loving the car on the road were pushing the car a lot harder than realistic road driving (crossing into the other lane, getting it loose with the power on wet roads, etc.).
I think the assumption that the GT3 is going to "plod" along like the 991 or 991S fails on a couple of levels. First, there is a whole forum just above this one full of people who bought "regular" 991's and enjoy the heck out of them on the street and on track. I doubt you'd convince many of them that their cars aren't fun to drive. This goes to my point about the subjective nature of this whole issue.
Second, the 991 GT3 has gone several steps beyond the Carrera in terms of steering, engine, gearbox, exhaust note, and any number of other things that will make it a more involving experience even at normal speeds. I think it's a mistake to extrapolate the GT3 experience from your perception of the 991 experience.
It's interesting that when some people (not you necessarily, Manifold) first started posting about the 991 GT3 it was going to be nothing more than a hopped up C&C car that would never earn it's chops at the track. Then when the reviews started coming in that tune changed. It's now going to be a beast at the track but boring on the street. Wrong then and wrong now, IMHO.
08-10-2013, 02:03 PM
#33
Race Director
Any idea how I can get a copy? In the US I don't think any of the local places has it on the rack, anyone know of a chain that carries it?
I checked into the digital subscription, it would begin with issue 188, not the current 187. I'd happily buy the subscription if I could get the current issue.
Checked "back issues" they start at 185, ugh.
Ryan
I checked into the digital subscription, it would begin with issue 188, not the current 187. I'd happily buy the subscription if I could get the current issue.
Checked "back issues" they start at 185, ugh.
Ryan
08-10-2013, 03:16 PM
#34
I'm not dismissing your perspective about what is "fun" and "engaging" and what isn't, but I do think it's very subjective and is going to vary widely from person to person. If the 991 GT3 is going to be boring because it's too capable for street driving, then there's no point in buying any exotic or supercar since the frustration of driving it at legal speeds is always going to be too high.
I think the assumption that the GT3 is going to "plod" along like the 991 or 991S fails on a couple of levels. First, there is a whole forum just above this one full of people who bought "regular" 991's and enjoy the heck out of them on the street and on track. I doubt you'd convince many of them that their cars aren't fun to drive. This goes to my point about the subjective nature of this whole issue.
Second, the 991 GT3 has gone several steps beyond the Carrera in terms of steering, engine, gearbox, exhaust note, and any number of other things that will make it a more involving experience even at normal speeds. I think it's a mistake to extrapolate the GT3 experience from your perception of the 991 experience.
It's interesting that when some people (not you necessarily, Manifold) first started posting about the 991 GT3 it was going to be nothing more than a hopped up C&C car that would never earn it's chops at the track. Then when the reviews started coming in that tune changed. It's now going to be a beast at the track but boring on the street. Wrong then and wrong now, IMHO.
I think the assumption that the GT3 is going to "plod" along like the 991 or 991S fails on a couple of levels. First, there is a whole forum just above this one full of people who bought "regular" 991's and enjoy the heck out of them on the street and on track. I doubt you'd convince many of them that their cars aren't fun to drive. This goes to my point about the subjective nature of this whole issue.
Second, the 991 GT3 has gone several steps beyond the Carrera in terms of steering, engine, gearbox, exhaust note, and any number of other things that will make it a more involving experience even at normal speeds. I think it's a mistake to extrapolate the GT3 experience from your perception of the 991 experience.
It's interesting that when some people (not you necessarily, Manifold) first started posting about the 991 GT3 it was going to be nothing more than a hopped up C&C car that would never earn it's chops at the track. Then when the reviews started coming in that tune changed. It's now going to be a beast at the track but boring on the street. Wrong then and wrong now, IMHO.
08-10-2013, 05:04 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Mike, to some extent I have to disagree. There are super cars that are fun to drive on the street and you do not need to be at speed to enjoy the car. You feel it is subjective but if I put you into a 458, 12C, Gallardo or SLS you will understand and recognize the difference immediately. I believe these reviewers having driven the above super cars are expressing what most people know. Porsche's are designed to be driven near their limit to be enjoyed. Apparently, the GT3 is not an exception.
Nevertheless, I still intend to buy the car. If I find it boring in street driving I will immediately sell it.
Nevertheless, I still intend to buy the car. If I find it boring in street driving I will immediately sell it.
08-10-2013, 05:10 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Too true Mike. Wait until the hardcore track track coparos start flooding in. I believe there will be quite a few track rats here cursing they didn't at least get there name on a list.
911rox. Richard Meaden and Jethro are very accomplished drivers. Meadens raced LeMans I believe...
911rox. Richard Meaden and Jethro are very accomplished drivers. Meadens raced LeMans I believe...
08-10-2013, 07:16 PM
#37
Race Director
Mike, to some extent I have to disagree. There are super cars that are fun to drive on the street and you do not need to be at speed to enjoy the car. You feel it is subjective but if I put you into a 458, 12C, Gallardo or SLS you will understand and recognize the difference immediately. I believe these reviewers having driven the above super cars are expressing what most people know. Porsche's are designed to be driven near their limit to be enjoyed. Apparently, the GT3 is not an exception.
Nevertheless, I still intend to buy the car. If I find it boring in street driving I will immediately sell it.
Nevertheless, I still intend to buy the car. If I find it boring in street driving I will immediately sell it.
08-10-2013, 09:03 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Nick, there has been only the one reviewer who expressed a concern that the 991 GT3 needed to be tracked to be enjoyed. TEHO, of course, and your subjective reaction (and his) to the car will be as valid as mine or anyone else's. I'll just say that, having seen the various videos and with due respect to your POV, one has to have become pretty jaded to be concerned that driving that car might be boring; 99% of the car loving population would kill for 10 minutes behind the wheel.
08-10-2013, 10:45 PM
#40
If the take the GT3 for a drive in "D", its going to be boring and not engaging. No torque at low RPMs; it will feel slow and boring.
Put the car in "manual", don't ever shift before 4500 RPMs and hitting the rev limiter once in awhile and you'll enjoy ever minute of the drive. You don't have to be going break neck speeds to do this.
Put the car in "manual", don't ever shift before 4500 RPMs and hitting the rev limiter once in awhile and you'll enjoy ever minute of the drive. You don't have to be going break neck speeds to do this.
08-10-2013, 11:36 PM
#41
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We'll see how the 991 GT3 does as a DD from a subjective standpoint. Based on the reviews so far, I suspect/fear that those who enjoy it on the road will need to engage in substantial hooliganism. But I hope I'm wrong, since it would be great if it's indeed fun at all speeds.
For track use, I've come to terms with pretty much everything about the car, including the PDK (assuming that track seats are coming soon). And by interesting coincidence, today I attended a clinic for PCA DE instructors presented by one of the Porsche school instructors. The focus was on the technologies in these cars (PDK, PASM, PDCC, PTV, PSM, etc.) and how they work. He predicted that, 5 years from now, the vast majority of Porsches will be PDK, with manual being a relatively rare special order which costs extra. He also said that the Porsche school instructors typically leave the PDK in automatic mode.
For track use, I've come to terms with pretty much everything about the car, including the PDK (assuming that track seats are coming soon). And by interesting coincidence, today I attended a clinic for PCA DE instructors presented by one of the Porsche school instructors. The focus was on the technologies in these cars (PDK, PASM, PDCC, PTV, PSM, etc.) and how they work. He predicted that, 5 years from now, the vast majority of Porsches will be PDK, with manual being a relatively rare special order which costs extra. He also said that the Porsche school instructors typically leave the PDK in automatic mode.
08-10-2013, 11:41 PM
#42
The word boring occurs 11 times on this page. Well, 12 now that I wrote boring, too. 13.
So I suggest we call a moratorium on presuming the GT3 is going to be boring. 14. Dammit!
I drive the 991S from day to day (I bought it for myself, but my wife commandeered it after she decided it was "her" car … and that suited me fine, but I found it to be a poor track day car and the steering is annoying) but I wouldn't call it boring. The GT3 won't be bor... um ... dull ... under any circumstances other than having to listen to people who don't drive it explain how it's boring! 15. Dammit!
So I suggest we call a moratorium on presuming the GT3 is going to be boring. 14. Dammit!
I drive the 991S from day to day (I bought it for myself, but my wife commandeered it after she decided it was "her" car … and that suited me fine, but I found it to be a poor track day car and the steering is annoying) but I wouldn't call it boring. The GT3 won't be bor... um ... dull ... under any circumstances other than having to listen to people who don't drive it explain how it's boring! 15. Dammit!
08-11-2013, 12:27 AM
#43
Race Director
The word boring occurs 11 times on this page. Well, 12 now that I wrote boring, too. 13.
So I suggest we call a moratorium on presuming the GT3 is going to be boring. 14. Dammit!
I drive the 991S from day to day (I bought it for myself, but my wife commandeered it after she decided it was "her" car … and that suited me fine, but I found it to be a poor track day car and the steering is annoying) but I wouldn't call it boring. The GT3 won't be bor... um ... dull ... under any circumstances other than having to listen to people who don't drive it explain how it's boring! 15. Dammit!
So I suggest we call a moratorium on presuming the GT3 is going to be boring. 14. Dammit!
I drive the 991S from day to day (I bought it for myself, but my wife commandeered it after she decided it was "her" car … and that suited me fine, but I found it to be a poor track day car and the steering is annoying) but I wouldn't call it boring. The GT3 won't be bor... um ... dull ... under any circumstances other than having to listen to people who don't drive it explain how it's boring! 15. Dammit!
08-11-2013, 05:47 AM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Contrast this 'only fun at full tilt' with what Evo had to say about previous GT3s -
Excerpt from this Evo group test of all the previous GT3s - http://www.evo.co.uk/features/featur...roup_test.html
I fell in love with GT3 after a mundane 10 min test drive. Before that I rented a GTR for a weekend and fell out of 'love with it' cause it was not fun at reasonable speeds. So I don't for a second buy the none of these cars can be fun to drive at reasonable speeds argument. Just my 2 cents.
The GT3 has never just been about outright power and grip. The joy of this stripped-back 911 is that it mixes purity of purpose with subtlety of feel, chases lap times but never at the expense of driver involvement, and that it rewards at walking pace even though it’s developed to be driven flat-out for hours on end without so much as a flicker of its oil temperature gauge.
I fell in love with GT3 after a mundane 10 min test drive. Before that I rented a GTR for a weekend and fell out of 'love with it' cause it was not fun at reasonable speeds. So I don't for a second buy the none of these cars can be fun to drive at reasonable speeds argument. Just my 2 cents.