Projected Hockenheim Lap time
03-29-2013, 09:15 AM
#136
03-29-2013, 11:07 AM
#137
I don't recognize "digitrends" as any authoritative source of auto industry reporting. If anything, my impression was that story reached beyond what has been said by Porsche or reported elsewhere.
If anyone can trace any of this back to facts divulged by Porsche, great, otherwise, we're still at square one, day one of speculation. Speaking of which ... : )
I'd say Porsche has revealed their play book over the last decade or so, with only minor revisions: there will be a "limited" version of the RS, perhaps as a 991.2. It will have the $200K price bracket. The existing RS is "about three quarters behind the GT3" and will continue, business as usual, being positioned neatly above the GT3 with differentiating features, which I imagine won't include all the goodness of the RS 4.0 (carbon body) but I'm ever the optimist that Porsche will wake up and smell the contempt for their blatant milking of the brand and their milking of the calf in the form of the 911 enthusiast driver. Perhaps the talk of a carbon roof is for that "limited" model at $200K. Perhaps Porsche will use the lightweight body panels in carbon to differentiate the RS in a 3.8 engine format. It would be great to see a fully nose to tail RS 3.8 at 500 horse and under 3000lbs. That's where they should be. Hell, by now, Porsche should have a fully carbon tub. But that really will be a $300K price point, not from cost (Ford and others are preparing compact economy cars with full carbon tubs, so don't be fooled into thinking it's an exotic material, it will become commonplace) but from market positioning. On that front, I wonder if Porsche is playing their technology strength to force errors from McLaren (I seriously expected McLaren to win this round, but if the GT3 numbers turn out to be real, the 12C is a Dodo.)
If Porsche can build a steel and aluminium 911 that uses technology to exceed the performance of the 12C, what can McLaren do except raise their performance (and their cost basis) to compete with on the "my robots are faster than your robots" lap time oneupmanship? Worse for Ferrari -- their "digital" 458 has analog egg on its face if it turns out to be a $300K F car that's slower than a $135K P car. Oh brother, Ferrari must be staring with disbelief at the Hockenheim rumored numbers and praying it's all a bad nightmare.
Whatever they offer, it won't leave a gap from the GT3 all the way to $200K. The market did not receive the RS 4.0 with unlimited demand. If anything, this new GT3 shows that even the apex of the outgoing model is overshadowed by the entry-level model of the successor. I didn't expect. I saw the RS 4.0 as a high bar that Porsche would leave in place for a model cycle, but comments from Preuninger make it abundantly clear that the 991 GT3 puts down faster lap times than the RS 4.0. The "projected" lap times at Hockyring suggest it's no slim margin.
And what comes of the 911 if Porsche does finally admit the elephant in the room and build a GT3-engined Cayman (or Boxster!) What does that do to the GT car line-up? Hell, what does it do to the 918?
I fear Porsche will be looking back on the 991 model life span and preparing a successor with the publicly stated purpose of winning back the brand loyalty they've squandered.
If I were to be generous, I'd say I hear the voices of a band of rebels at galactic central headquarters doing things like going back to racing in 2014. It will be a matter of what they race (the cars, the drivers, the events) but I do look forward to many years of seeing Porsches compete at the great events and the small ones, around the world, seeing privateers get a helping hand from the factory, grass roots programs for weekend warriors, an assault on Paris Dakar, heroic early morning pit repairs to keep man and machine in with a chance to win Le Mans. Real racing. Not gazillion dollar grandstanding to run a 1-2-3 win and rest on laurels.
I'd much rather see Porsche spend their marketing budget on bringing a competitive factory race car to club racing at an affordable weekend warrior budget than to see them campaign an all-out exotic that bears little or no resemblance to anything other than million dollar luxury baubles for the rich to add to the collections and swap between each other at auction.
I'd much rather a 911 lightweight that Porsche actively encourages the owners to track and with no vague games about what's under warranty and what's the "fault" of the owner.
Here's hoping Porsche does build 'em and damn the torpedoes. Let them race these cars wheel to wheel instead of robot to robot, stopwatch to stopwatch. I'm fascinated by the cars and the performance. I love seeing a hot lap of the Nurburgring. It's a sense of pride that a 911 is still there after 50 years, still setting the time to beat. But more than that, I want to see dirty faces and the smiles of victory in motorsport.
If anyone can trace any of this back to facts divulged by Porsche, great, otherwise, we're still at square one, day one of speculation. Speaking of which ... : )
I'd say Porsche has revealed their play book over the last decade or so, with only minor revisions: there will be a "limited" version of the RS, perhaps as a 991.2. It will have the $200K price bracket. The existing RS is "about three quarters behind the GT3" and will continue, business as usual, being positioned neatly above the GT3 with differentiating features, which I imagine won't include all the goodness of the RS 4.0 (carbon body) but I'm ever the optimist that Porsche will wake up and smell the contempt for their blatant milking of the brand and their milking of the calf in the form of the 911 enthusiast driver. Perhaps the talk of a carbon roof is for that "limited" model at $200K. Perhaps Porsche will use the lightweight body panels in carbon to differentiate the RS in a 3.8 engine format. It would be great to see a fully nose to tail RS 3.8 at 500 horse and under 3000lbs. That's where they should be. Hell, by now, Porsche should have a fully carbon tub. But that really will be a $300K price point, not from cost (Ford and others are preparing compact economy cars with full carbon tubs, so don't be fooled into thinking it's an exotic material, it will become commonplace) but from market positioning. On that front, I wonder if Porsche is playing their technology strength to force errors from McLaren (I seriously expected McLaren to win this round, but if the GT3 numbers turn out to be real, the 12C is a Dodo.)
If Porsche can build a steel and aluminium 911 that uses technology to exceed the performance of the 12C, what can McLaren do except raise their performance (and their cost basis) to compete with on the "my robots are faster than your robots" lap time oneupmanship? Worse for Ferrari -- their "digital" 458 has analog egg on its face if it turns out to be a $300K F car that's slower than a $135K P car. Oh brother, Ferrari must be staring with disbelief at the Hockenheim rumored numbers and praying it's all a bad nightmare.
Whatever they offer, it won't leave a gap from the GT3 all the way to $200K. The market did not receive the RS 4.0 with unlimited demand. If anything, this new GT3 shows that even the apex of the outgoing model is overshadowed by the entry-level model of the successor. I didn't expect. I saw the RS 4.0 as a high bar that Porsche would leave in place for a model cycle, but comments from Preuninger make it abundantly clear that the 991 GT3 puts down faster lap times than the RS 4.0. The "projected" lap times at Hockyring suggest it's no slim margin.
And what comes of the 911 if Porsche does finally admit the elephant in the room and build a GT3-engined Cayman (or Boxster!) What does that do to the GT car line-up? Hell, what does it do to the 918?
I fear Porsche will be looking back on the 991 model life span and preparing a successor with the publicly stated purpose of winning back the brand loyalty they've squandered.
If I were to be generous, I'd say I hear the voices of a band of rebels at galactic central headquarters doing things like going back to racing in 2014. It will be a matter of what they race (the cars, the drivers, the events) but I do look forward to many years of seeing Porsches compete at the great events and the small ones, around the world, seeing privateers get a helping hand from the factory, grass roots programs for weekend warriors, an assault on Paris Dakar, heroic early morning pit repairs to keep man and machine in with a chance to win Le Mans. Real racing. Not gazillion dollar grandstanding to run a 1-2-3 win and rest on laurels.
I'd much rather see Porsche spend their marketing budget on bringing a competitive factory race car to club racing at an affordable weekend warrior budget than to see them campaign an all-out exotic that bears little or no resemblance to anything other than million dollar luxury baubles for the rich to add to the collections and swap between each other at auction.
I'd much rather a 911 lightweight that Porsche actively encourages the owners to track and with no vague games about what's under warranty and what's the "fault" of the owner.
Here's hoping Porsche does build 'em and damn the torpedoes. Let them race these cars wheel to wheel instead of robot to robot, stopwatch to stopwatch. I'm fascinated by the cars and the performance. I love seeing a hot lap of the Nurburgring. It's a sense of pride that a 911 is still there after 50 years, still setting the time to beat. But more than that, I want to see dirty faces and the smiles of victory in motorsport.
03-29-2013, 01:56 PM
#138
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I don't recognize "digitrends" as any authoritative source of auto industry reporting. If anything, my impression was that story reached beyond what has been said by Porsche or reported elsewhere.
If anyone can trace any of this back to facts divulged by Porsche, great, otherwise, we're still at square one, day one of speculation. Speaking of which ... : )
I'd say Porsche has revealed their play book over the last decade or so, with only minor revisions: there will be a "limited" version of the RS, perhaps as a 991.2. It will have the $200K price bracket. The existing RS is "about three quarters behind the GT3" and will continue, business as usual, being positioned neatly above the GT3 with differentiating features, which I imagine won't include all the goodness of the RS 4.0 (carbon body) but I'm ever the optimist that Porsche will wake up and smell the contempt for their blatant milking of the brand and their milking of the calf in the form of the 911 enthusiast driver. Perhaps the talk of a carbon roof is for that "limited" model at $200K. Perhaps Porsche will use the lightweight body panels in carbon to differentiate the RS in a 3.8 engine format. It would be great to see a fully nose to tail RS 3.8 at 500 horse and under 3000lbs. That's where they should be. Hell, by now, Porsche should have a fully carbon tub. But that really will be a $300K price point, not from cost (Ford and others are preparing compact economy cars with full carbon tubs, so don't be fooled into thinking it's an exotic material, it will become commonplace) but from market positioning. On that front, I wonder if Porsche is playing their technology strength to force errors from McLaren (I seriously expected McLaren to win this round, but if the GT3 numbers turn out to be real, the 12C is a Dodo.)
If Porsche can build a steel and aluminium 911 that uses technology to exceed the performance of the 12C, what can McLaren do except raise their performance (and their cost basis) to compete with on the "my robots are faster than your robots" lap time oneupmanship? Worse for Ferrari -- their "digital" 458 has analog egg on its face if it turns out to be a $300K F car that's slower than a $135K P car. Oh brother, Ferrari must be staring with disbelief at the Hockenheim rumored numbers and praying it's all a bad nightmare.
Whatever they offer, it won't leave a gap from the GT3 all the way to $200K. The market did not receive the RS 4.0 with unlimited demand. If anything, this new GT3 shows that even the apex of the outgoing model is overshadowed by the entry-level model of the successor. I didn't expect. I saw the RS 4.0 as a high bar that Porsche would leave in place for a model cycle, but comments from Preuninger make it abundantly clear that the 991 GT3 puts down faster lap times than the RS 4.0. The "projected" lap times at Hockyring suggest it's no slim margin.
And what comes of the 911 if Porsche does finally admit the elephant in the room and build a GT3-engined Cayman (or Boxster!) What does that do to the GT car line-up? Hell, what does it do to the 918?
I fear Porsche will be looking back on the 991 model life span and preparing a successor with the publicly stated purpose of winning back the brand loyalty they've squandered.
If I were to be generous, I'd say I hear the voices of a band of rebels at galactic central headquarters doing things like going back to racing in 2014. It will be a matter of what they race (the cars, the drivers, the events) but I do look forward to many years of seeing Porsches compete at the great events and the small ones, around the world, seeing privateers get a helping hand from the factory, grass roots programs for weekend warriors, an assault on Paris Dakar, heroic early morning pit repairs to keep man and machine in with a chance to win Le Mans. Real racing. Not gazillion dollar grandstanding to run a 1-2-3 win and rest on laurels.
I'd much rather see Porsche spend their marketing budget on bringing a competitive factory race car to club racing at an affordable weekend warrior budget than to see them campaign an all-out exotic that bears little or no resemblance to anything other than million dollar luxury baubles for the rich to add to the collections and swap between each other at auction.
I'd much rather a 911 lightweight that Porsche actively encourages the owners to track and with no vague games about what's under warranty and what's the "fault" of the owner.
Here's hoping Porsche does build 'em and damn the torpedoes. Let them race these cars wheel to wheel instead of robot to robot, stopwatch to stopwatch. I'm fascinated by the cars and the performance. I love seeing a hot lap of the Nurburgring. It's a sense of pride that a 911 is still there after 50 years, still setting the time to beat. But more than that, I want to see dirty faces and the smiles of victory in motorsport.
If anyone can trace any of this back to facts divulged by Porsche, great, otherwise, we're still at square one, day one of speculation. Speaking of which ... : )
I'd say Porsche has revealed their play book over the last decade or so, with only minor revisions: there will be a "limited" version of the RS, perhaps as a 991.2. It will have the $200K price bracket. The existing RS is "about three quarters behind the GT3" and will continue, business as usual, being positioned neatly above the GT3 with differentiating features, which I imagine won't include all the goodness of the RS 4.0 (carbon body) but I'm ever the optimist that Porsche will wake up and smell the contempt for their blatant milking of the brand and their milking of the calf in the form of the 911 enthusiast driver. Perhaps the talk of a carbon roof is for that "limited" model at $200K. Perhaps Porsche will use the lightweight body panels in carbon to differentiate the RS in a 3.8 engine format. It would be great to see a fully nose to tail RS 3.8 at 500 horse and under 3000lbs. That's where they should be. Hell, by now, Porsche should have a fully carbon tub. But that really will be a $300K price point, not from cost (Ford and others are preparing compact economy cars with full carbon tubs, so don't be fooled into thinking it's an exotic material, it will become commonplace) but from market positioning. On that front, I wonder if Porsche is playing their technology strength to force errors from McLaren (I seriously expected McLaren to win this round, but if the GT3 numbers turn out to be real, the 12C is a Dodo.)
If Porsche can build a steel and aluminium 911 that uses technology to exceed the performance of the 12C, what can McLaren do except raise their performance (and their cost basis) to compete with on the "my robots are faster than your robots" lap time oneupmanship? Worse for Ferrari -- their "digital" 458 has analog egg on its face if it turns out to be a $300K F car that's slower than a $135K P car. Oh brother, Ferrari must be staring with disbelief at the Hockenheim rumored numbers and praying it's all a bad nightmare.
Whatever they offer, it won't leave a gap from the GT3 all the way to $200K. The market did not receive the RS 4.0 with unlimited demand. If anything, this new GT3 shows that even the apex of the outgoing model is overshadowed by the entry-level model of the successor. I didn't expect. I saw the RS 4.0 as a high bar that Porsche would leave in place for a model cycle, but comments from Preuninger make it abundantly clear that the 991 GT3 puts down faster lap times than the RS 4.0. The "projected" lap times at Hockyring suggest it's no slim margin.
And what comes of the 911 if Porsche does finally admit the elephant in the room and build a GT3-engined Cayman (or Boxster!) What does that do to the GT car line-up? Hell, what does it do to the 918?
I fear Porsche will be looking back on the 991 model life span and preparing a successor with the publicly stated purpose of winning back the brand loyalty they've squandered.
If I were to be generous, I'd say I hear the voices of a band of rebels at galactic central headquarters doing things like going back to racing in 2014. It will be a matter of what they race (the cars, the drivers, the events) but I do look forward to many years of seeing Porsches compete at the great events and the small ones, around the world, seeing privateers get a helping hand from the factory, grass roots programs for weekend warriors, an assault on Paris Dakar, heroic early morning pit repairs to keep man and machine in with a chance to win Le Mans. Real racing. Not gazillion dollar grandstanding to run a 1-2-3 win and rest on laurels.
I'd much rather see Porsche spend their marketing budget on bringing a competitive factory race car to club racing at an affordable weekend warrior budget than to see them campaign an all-out exotic that bears little or no resemblance to anything other than million dollar luxury baubles for the rich to add to the collections and swap between each other at auction.
I'd much rather a 911 lightweight that Porsche actively encourages the owners to track and with no vague games about what's under warranty and what's the "fault" of the owner.
Here's hoping Porsche does build 'em and damn the torpedoes. Let them race these cars wheel to wheel instead of robot to robot, stopwatch to stopwatch. I'm fascinated by the cars and the performance. I love seeing a hot lap of the Nurburgring. It's a sense of pride that a 911 is still there after 50 years, still setting the time to beat. But more than that, I want to see dirty faces and the smiles of victory in motorsport.
03-29-2013, 02:21 PM
#139
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Porsche won't even allow a car that has been equipped to out pace GT3's for years actually do that (911 Turbo), they sure aren't going to let a Cayman do it. They aren't going to let the Cayman beat the base 911 let alone a GT3. That murder to their market strategy which they have not deviated from one bit. Porsche are the biggest capitalists in the market. By far biggest profit margins because they do not bend from the status quo. They might (slight possibility) make the 918 variant (960?) faster and charge 300-400k for it. But they may not even do that because those cars will never sell as well as the 911 does without back seats, so the 911 must remain the icon. So Porsche will continue to charge for the 911 as if it's a CF bodied mid engine car, because image blind, kool-aid drinking people will continue to rush and buy them.
Look at it this way, Porsche won't even build a true 918/960 race car to step on the toes of the 911. It's not going to happen. They would at least be leaning towards it. The silver lining is this new they really must think this new RSR will really be competitive.
The one problem with the Ferrari and Mclaren theory is that those types of buyers don't care how fast or not the car is. It's about image. Porsche has been beating Ferrari on the track since the 360. Still waiting lists and nearly unobtanium levels of Ferrari prestige. Mclaren won't be any different.
Look at it this way, Porsche won't even build a true 918/960 race car to step on the toes of the 911. It's not going to happen. They would at least be leaning towards it. The silver lining is this new they really must think this new RSR will really be competitive.
The one problem with the Ferrari and Mclaren theory is that those types of buyers don't care how fast or not the car is. It's about image. Porsche has been beating Ferrari on the track since the 360. Still waiting lists and nearly unobtanium levels of Ferrari prestige. Mclaren won't be any different.
03-29-2013, 03:14 PM
#140
Heck, even a Panamera Turbo S is quicker around Hockenheim than a 996 GT2 and 996 GT3 (with some margin even).
03-29-2013, 03:18 PM
#141
Porsche won't even allow a car that has been equipped to out pace GT3's for years actually do that (911 Turbo), they sure aren't going to let a Cayman do it. They aren't going to let the Cayman beat the base 911 let alone a GT3. That murder to their market strategy which they have not deviated from one bit. Porsche are the biggest capitalists in the market. By far biggest profit margins because they do not bend from the status quo. They might (slight possibility) make the 918 variant (960?) faster and charge 300-400k for it. But they may not even do that because those cars will never sell as well as the 911 does without back seats, so the 911 must remain the icon. So Porsche will continue to charge for the 911 as if it's a CF bodied mid engine car, because image blind, kool-aid drinking people will continue to rush and buy them.
Look at it this way, Porsche won't even build a true 918/960 race car to step on the toes of the 911. It's not going to happen. They would at least be leaning towards it. The silver lining is this new they really must think this new RSR will really be competitive.
The one problem with the Ferrari and Mclaren theory is that those types of buyers don't care how fast or not the car is. It's about image. Porsche has been beating Ferrari on the track since the 360. Still waiting lists and nearly unobtanium levels of Ferrari prestige. Mclaren won't be any different.
Look at it this way, Porsche won't even build a true 918/960 race car to step on the toes of the 911. It's not going to happen. They would at least be leaning towards it. The silver lining is this new they really must think this new RSR will really be competitive.
The one problem with the Ferrari and Mclaren theory is that those types of buyers don't care how fast or not the car is. It's about image. Porsche has been beating Ferrari on the track since the 360. Still waiting lists and nearly unobtanium levels of Ferrari prestige. Mclaren won't be any different.
There's overlap between Cayman R and Cayman S and base model Carrera. Porsche is slowly blurring these product boundaries.
The motivation for a progression of new models from Porsche came in part from flagging 911 sales. Porsche is an SUV and sports sedan maker if measured unit sales volume.
The 911 is not priced at CF bodied car prices -- even the limited production 911 GT2 RS was only just at the same price as the entry level 12C over a year ago.
The 458 Italia is "drive off the lot" availability in Silicon Valley, so while their pricing is unobtanium, the projection of "waiting lists" is market image, not practical reality.
Both Ferrari and McLaren make no bones about the fact their cars sell by image and perceived exclusivity, but their design is very much a value proposition of being able to drive fast without knowing how to drive fast. The limiting factor has been a third pedal. Now removed. The limiting factor has been a perception of difficult driving. Now removed. In the context of competition between brands, performance is very much a central factor, even though not even 1% of buyers will ever exploit the potential of their trophy symbol, as with Range Rover off-road prowess, it is "important to know it's there."
Porsche has been struggling in racing the 911. I think it's been rules more than the car itself, but the platform has reached its limits in the current format.
I don't equate brand loyalty and an emotion bond to the 911 with being blinded by image. There's no question buyers are image conscious and status conscious when choosing a Porsche, Audi, BMW or Mercedes, but as price tags go into six figures, the pretentious buyer is more likely in an ostentatious Ferrari than a visually indistinguishable 911.
I can't make heads or tails of the 918 or what Porsche thinks its doing "up there." Each time Porsche sends up a trial balloon to explore their price sensitivity and elasticity, it comes down made out of lead. Whatever Porsche sends north of $200K next, won't be a 911. After this hybrid 918 Spyder nonsense plays out, I imagine VW wants the Porsche niche neatly tucked in under Lambo and focused on eating Ferrari's lunch and stifling McLaren so it can't afford to keep building its dealer infrastructure to reach a sustainable market penetration. If VW/Porsche does a good job of sucking the oxygen out of the room, McLaren eventually turns blue. The auto industry is not characterized by new marques entering the market and flourishing. Since the 90's, it's been about decay, mergers and acquisitions. Once legendary brands become tokens shoved across the table from one balance sheet to the next. Rumors in the last week or so suggest Audi might buy Alfa Romeo from Fiat. Giants passing around the cadavers of once great motorsport legends. Meanwhile, the likes of Fisker are on the brink of failure. Tesla exists only as a sham of exploiting misguided enthusiasm for anything that doesn't burn fuel (and instead put the pollution out of sight and out of mind.) It would be great for McLaren to take the fight to Porsche, but the 12C isn't going to do it. I don't think it's too pessimistic to expect McLaren battles on for a while then ownership shifts to another company, maybe some giant company in China or India decides it might be fun to own another British motorsport head to mount above their fireplace. Maybe we should thank McLaren directly for the GT3 being a technological tour de lap times. Thanks so much. Perhaps we really need Lotus to challenge Porsche in a race to lightness, but even Lotus is building some damn heavy "sports" cars. What to do? I think I'll go drive the 993. : )
03-29-2013, 05:46 PM
#142
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Interesting, I've seen several reviews showing otherwise. By numbers (power-to-weight and % of weight on rear axle) base 991 should have slight advantage.
Anyway, I was watching this situation with 911 and Cayman for years, and went with BMW last time because the situation with great but intentionally hamstringed Cayman and good but compromised by legacy 911 was a strong turn off.
But since 991, I just do not see what the big deal is about anymore. 991 Carrera just does not feel compromised in any way. I drove it aggressively, and I could not feel any problems. It feels a little bit different than a Cayman but not worse in any way - actually better in most. And why would it be - after all the weight distribution in 991 is roughly the same as in mid-engined F 458 and MP4 (42/58 ), and both mid-engined car manufacturers argue that it's better than 50/50.
Anyway, I was watching this situation with 911 and Cayman for years, and went with BMW last time because the situation with great but intentionally hamstringed Cayman and good but compromised by legacy 911 was a strong turn off.
But since 991, I just do not see what the big deal is about anymore. 991 Carrera just does not feel compromised in any way. I drove it aggressively, and I could not feel any problems. It feels a little bit different than a Cayman but not worse in any way - actually better in most. And why would it be - after all the weight distribution in 991 is roughly the same as in mid-engined F 458 and MP4 (42/58 ), and both mid-engined car manufacturers argue that it's better than 50/50.
03-29-2013, 05:50 PM
#143
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03-29-2013, 06:03 PM
#144
Interesting, I've seen several reviews showing otherwise. By numbers (power-to-weight and % of weight on rear axle) base 991 should have slight advantage.
Anyway, I was watching this situation with 911 and Cayman for years, and went with BMW last time because the situation with great but intentionally hamstringed Cayman and good but compromised by legacy 911 was a strong turn off.
But since 991, I just do not see what the big deal is about anymore. 991 Carrera just does not feel compromised in any way. I drove it aggressively, and I could not feel any problems. It feels a little bit different than a Cayman but not worse in any way - actually better in most. And why would it be - after all the weight distribution in 991 is roughly the same as in mid-engined F 458 and MP4 (42/58 ), and both mid-engined car manufacturers argue that it's better than 50/50.
Anyway, I was watching this situation with 911 and Cayman for years, and went with BMW last time because the situation with great but intentionally hamstringed Cayman and good but compromised by legacy 911 was a strong turn off.
But since 991, I just do not see what the big deal is about anymore. 991 Carrera just does not feel compromised in any way. I drove it aggressively, and I could not feel any problems. It feels a little bit different than a Cayman but not worse in any way - actually better in most. And why would it be - after all the weight distribution in 991 is roughly the same as in mid-engined F 458 and MP4 (42/58 ), and both mid-engined car manufacturers argue that it's better than 50/50.
From the Car and Driver test 981 Boxster S vs 991 base "With 2013 versions of the Boxster S and the base 911, the accelerative gap between the two is now exactly zero. And we mean exactly zero... they both clock 12.9 seconds at 111 mph through the quarter-mile." ...the Cayman S will be quicker
04-05-2013, 05:16 AM
#146
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Time to wake up. The 987 Cayman R is quicker around Hockenheim than a 997.2 Carrera GTS. The 981 Cayman S does beat the base 991 in straight line. I have not seen lap times for them, but hope to see them soon.
Heck, even a Panamera Turbo S is quicker around Hockenheim than a 996 GT2 and 996 GT3 (with some margin even).
Heck, even a Panamera Turbo S is quicker around Hockenheim than a 996 GT2 and 996 GT3 (with some margin even).
What does a Panamera have to do with a 996 at all? Man you are reaching.
04-05-2013, 05:21 AM
#147
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To come back to the subject of the thread title:
1. Sport Auto supertest of the new GT3 will be done in September - so we have to wait
2. I bet you for 99,99% it wont be on first place..faster then a Mclaren? now way..
Lets wait...
1. Sport Auto supertest of the new GT3 will be done in September - so we have to wait
2. I bet you for 99,99% it wont be on first place..faster then a Mclaren? now way..
Lets wait...
04-07-2013, 08:17 PM
#148
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
And while we wait, here is an interesting PDK vs manual comparison -
credit to 'Dede' @ germancarforum.com - http://www.germancarforum.com/commun...-2#post-632576
credit to 'Dede' @ germancarforum.com - http://www.germancarforum.com/commun...-2#post-632576
04-07-2013, 08:21 PM
#149
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
And another interesting one - 997.2 GTS PDK vs 991 S PDK -
Again credit to 'Dede' @ germancarforum.com - http://www.germancarforum.com/commun...-2#post-602359
Again credit to 'Dede' @ germancarforum.com - http://www.germancarforum.com/commun...-2#post-602359
04-07-2013, 08:31 PM
#150
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Question is given how 991 S PDK already did 1.10.4, is 991 GT3 with 70 more HP, gripper rubber, stiffer suspension, bigger brakes, more downforce, RWS, even quicker shifts capable of going 2+ secs quicker?