srwhitman

Well, I've done it. Long story...I'll cut to the chase.
Track day in March, accidently downshifted to 2nd. Went above 9K - no idea how much. Idiot message on dash and cut power to limp home mode. Made it back to pits at 60mph. After sitting an hour, drove car home and it was actually fine - the dash message went off and car was again drivable as if it were new. I called the dealer who told me "if it doesn't come back on and you don't notice drivability issues, its ok - no need to bring in." I didn't bring in and ended up doing 4 track days after with no issues. But after changing the spark plugs, driving to the track and then first lap on the track - doh, the engine cratered itself.

Ultimately, Porsche NA gave approval to tear the engine down (to Porsche Austin). They found a rod punctured the block. No possibility of rebuild. The real kicker (drum roll please...) - the DME report claims that it hit range 6 (there are 6 ranges up from red line - at 500 RPM increments) and was in the overrev range for 7.4s. I immediately questioned the data. I'm not an idiot. Yes, I agree, overrevved the engine but no way was it over 9K for 7.4s. But you can't fight city hall apparently.

Everyone was giving me support saying Porsche stands by their engines and blah blah blah but twas not to be. Not only that, their customer service...isn't. I had exasperating calls and emails to the dealer and was referred to 1-800-PORSCHE but even when you get someone to talk to, they repeat the party line. There is no way to talk to anyone who makes a decision and the dealer essentially acts like a buffer where I can't talk to anyone who has any decision making power whatsoever.

I'm still in shock over this. I know they are part of a big conglomerate but I've got 3 Porsches including a brand new Taycan and frankly they can't give a sh*t. No one will talk to me to give me the time of day except the dealer who, it seems, their hands are tied. The DME report only tells you minutes of engine time and minutes at the event but not the day or time. For all I know, the data is bogus. Yes, its my VIN but their data shows the overrev was 1500 engine minutes before the actual final event. I have no idea when that actually was and even though the car knows the day/time/gear they apparently don't record that. I work in the software industry and I know software can be buggy but trying to prove it would be impossible. I could sue but apparently when one does that, *they* don't have to do anything - I have to prove their incompetence. In this instance, it feels like they are judge, jury, and executioner. You'd think they'd want a repeat customer and I totally get that if its my fault I should pay (literally/figuratively) but 7.4s is just idiotic. I did not have a stroke/seizure/brain fart and I've been driving on the track for over 20 years (well, not this car obviously - but I've driven this one for ~10 track days or so ). I've never had a money shift before and oddly enough my buddy had one the day that mine went down but his car seems ok.

Bottom line - looks like my options are a new engine from the dealer (I get lost in the various prices but seems like its about $65K including labor) or a used engine. Anybody got one from a wrecked car? Seriously. No rear end collisions though. I did see a manual car like mine on a salvage site and while bid price is low now, I don't need a whole car and I don't know if that option makes sense for just the engine. One could argue that I shouldn't be cheap and just suck it up and get a new engine. I may still just do that but right now I'm not feeling it and not crazy about the company treatment of me. I was guessing the RS engine would work but its a PDK and different wiring harness and it might not hook up properly. Obviously another manual would work but those are hard to come by. I'm having feelers put out by a shop I used to work with as I am not happy about paying full price - especially to a company that I feel has given me the short end of the stick.

I searched this forum - haven't seen anyone with this issue (well at least that is willing to admit it) and those who have overrevved their engines (by my admittedly small poll of shops) have had theirs replaced by Porsche NA under warranty. Apparently up to range 3 is a no-brainer but range 6 is a no brainer the other way - they will never cover. Ugh. Crying myself to sleep these days...this happened mid-July and is been agony with the conversations since then.

Randy M

You'll only get leverage on your side if you hire a good lawyer. Right now you've got none.

pjazz

That sucks. I did that in my corvette once at the drag strip and luckily only destroyed my clutch. Maybe you can find a good used engine through an Indy.

Archimedes

And delete this thread where you admitted to a bad money shift.

I feel for you, but I would try to go through all five steps of grieving quickly and work on a plan to move forward.

ipse dixit

Hiring a "good lawyer" may be more expensive than simply crating in a new engine.

Prototyp1

It's a bigger problem in this society. You money shifted. Sympathy goes out to you but potentially thinking about suing Porsche to prove them wrong for your mistake? I don't get it, not even a thought. While I agree Porsche customer service could be painful but maybe it's a better idea to track a PDK next time to eliminate the problem.

GL!

lawrence1

Interesting post. Did you expect Porsche to warranty the engine when you in fact money shifted the car and scattered the engine? There's a reason they record those over revs. Unfortunately, it appears this one is on you. A salvage car will cost you around $100K so that avenue is unlikely to save you any money at all, and the condition of that engine will not be known until after you've taken delivery of it. Not to mention labor costs, warranty issues, etc. It likely makes more sense to have a new engine put in so you can have a warranty. Obviously, money shifting is not a covered manufacturing defect, so you shouldn't expect this to be covered under warranty, whether it was 1 second or 30 seconds of over revving. I personally don't see what hiring a lawyer is going to get you in this scenario, but i'm not a lawyer.

best of luck with getting the car repaired.

carcommander

Might be cheaper to sell the car to the dealer with a blown engine. The car now has a story. I would not expect Porsche to pay for your mistake.

srwhitman

I only mention suing as I'm angry but I realize that there is no way that will make monetary sense - too much money to fight big corp and likely to lose.

Agreed, yes, its my fault but the 7.4s data without a day/time and no way for them to prove that just doesn't make sense. They could put me on a lie detector test and a stack of bibles and I guarantee you I would say that at most my accidental downshift was at most 1-2 sec. If they could tell me for sure it was the same date I was at the track and show me a graphical chart to prove it, then I'd believe it. But my understanding is that they can't do that. Hence I question the data. I talked to the dealer service mgr who agreed w/me that it sounded suspicious. He thought maybe it might make sense if there was a spin or other "off" but I've never done that to this car.

My point was merely to state - yes, I agree I did the accidental downshift but I just have a hard time believing their data is accurate. Software is not perfect. I would believe I went into range 3 but range 6 seems impossible given the circumstances and length of time and *thats* why I think it should be covered under warranty. But I'm just the little guy.

I held off from posting for 5 weeks because I worried about the implications but at this point, well, frankly, I have nothing to lose.

BTW, to those who might be asking - I'm not planning on selling the car. You are not going to get a deal. I'd be asking at least $150K and I doubt in its current condition its worth that. So I'm going to repair it one way or another. I do love the car and I've done some mods for the track (harness and harness bar, updated seats, girodisc, track brakes) that would add quite a bit to the price if one were to try to duplicate that on a stock car. Besides, the color is awesome. Of course, as the dealer told me when they first got back to me - right now its an expensive paperweight. Ouch, that hurts.

991carreradriver

I have one comment and one piece of advice:
The Comment - PCNA and PAG have brain washed us to think that they will treat us better than other manufacturers treat their customers. This perception is false. While one thinks that spending north of $150k for a car entitles them to better treatment, it does -In the customer waiting room, they provide softer couches, donuts, water and breakfast bars. That is the extent of the better treatment.

The Advice - You tracked your car, you made an error and caused the engine to self destruct. Its over, decide how to move forward and manage the problem. Forget the lawyer, the money is not worth the stress and likely will go nowhere given your particular situation. I know its painful, but it's not a death sentence or a permanent injury. Every time I go on the track, I know things can go south in a hurry, I am not happy about it, but that is just the way it is.

srwhitman

Yep, totally get you - thats what I'm trying to do. So this is partly a rant, partly advice for others, partly a cry for help for finding a used engine.
My current options:

1. Buy a new engine, pay full price, have dealer install. Warranty is 2 years. Price - I've heard all over the map here so I am not quite sure. I have heard $65K installed up to over $80K installed - don't have a formal quote. I was told the core is toast as the rod went through the block - that adds $29K (included in above price) which is why its not exactly cheap. Labor isn't too bad - everyone says "about $5K".

2. Same as (1) - I'm trying to get the dealer to own up to the part where they told me to not come in when I did the right thing and called them after the incident. I feel that had they had me come in, some of this cost could have been avoided even if I had to pay for a full engine teardown. At least the block could have been saved! I've pestered them about this constantly w/o a direct answer. I do feel that they owe me here. They of course are trying to get Porsche NA to cover (ha ha).

3. Used engine or salvage car - with its risks but lower cost. I'm currently assessing the option here but right now I don't know if the dealer has dismantled the car so much that trying to ship it somewhere else (as admittedly a brick) might cause more problems. Still trying to get pictures and info from that as I was told that dealers just sometimes tear things apart and don't worry about putting it back together.

djcxxx

Had you brought the car to the dealer right after the missed shift you would be on more solid ground. The dealer gave you bad advice unfortunately as there is no time frame for the ovespeed data. I would try to negotiate the engine cost with the dealer or sell the car as is. I would not lawyer up and would not argue further with PCNA. Goal is to make car whole with least expenditure possible.

991carreradriver

In response to #1 -Have you called any of the used parts guy's such as LA Dismantlers? They may have an engine. I know two people who purchased rebuilt engines from Porsche and they were essentially new for far less than a new engine. I would go this route.

In response to #2 - The dealer has no liability as the engine was not destroyed when they tendered the advice. You tracked it after the initial overrev. You really did not have much of an option, except to have the engine torn down and replace the stressed, worn parts. That was a $5000 - $7,000 investment. In hindsight, it would have been a better course but who knew. At the very least, you should have gone to the dealer to have the ECU dumped so you would have a sense of where you stood. With a report like that, I would have had them tear down the top end, replace springs, lifters, rods and any valves that looked suspect as well as inspecting the pistons.

In response to #3 - The engine will be sold (by the dealer) to a specialized salvage company that will resell it to a dismantler for parts. Since your core is shot, there is not a lot of value in it. If you have the inclination, take the engine from the dealer and ship it to one of these companies. Personally, I would not do this as their is little value since the core is not a potential resale. Dealers will put together the engine so that they can sell it. It will be missing parts, sometime plugs and harnesses but that's the norm.

rhk118

Sorry to read this. Question on the DME report - Did they say that the 7.4 seconds overrev was all in Range 6? or was that a cumulative time of Range 1-6? I agree that seems like way too much given the situation you describe, but if you track a lot there are likely overrevs in Ranges 1-3 no matter how careful you think you are with the manual and perhaps that 7.4 seconds is a cumulative overrev over lifetime of the engine range? Just a thought, probably wrong, and likely won't change the course of things.

As for what 911carreradriver is saying likely best to replace with new. You try and save some money by buying a used motor and might just end up with more headaches or unknown expenses. And would likely save a ton by having an Indy do the install and not the dealer, unless then you lose out on the 2 year motor warranty.

zmon

Did you have track insurance? does not sound like it because you did not mention it, but if you did you can talk to them. see if its something they would cover? might not insure you again, but would be a "cost of deductible" to get the situation resolved and your car back on the road.