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Hey all. I am not a lawyer, but I am sure they exist on this forum. Just wondering, regarding warranty claims, I just received my latest copy of Panorama and there is a nice full page ad for Cobb tuning on the GT3/GT3 RS. There is no disclaimer on the ad by Porsche or Cobb about warranty claims. Curious to know if someone saw that ad, bought a Cobb, did the tune, had an issue, was denied warranty claim by Porsche, whether they would have a legal claim to fight it based on the fact that they allow Cobb to advertise their product in a sanctioned forum?
Hey all. I am not a lawyer, but I am sure they exist on this forum. Just wondering, regarding warranty claims, I just received my latest copy of Panorama and there is a nice full page ad for Cobb tuning on the GT3/GT3 RS. There is no disclaimer on the ad by Porsche or Cobb about warranty claims. Curious to know if someone saw that ad, bought a Cobb, did the tune, had an issue, was denied warranty claim by Porsche, whether they would have a legal claim to fight it based on the fact that they allow Cobb to advertise their product in a sanctioned forum?
No. The onus is on the owner to understand warranty implications of any modifications as spelled out in their vehicle warranty. Porsche, aftermarket tuners, parts suppliers aren't obligated to issue ongoing guidance or warnings.
Do you have any specific data to show just how "strung out" these engines are? And what are the dangers of a tune, which simply changes timing, air/fuel maps, ignition, etc.?
Street car engines putting out 125+ hp/L naturally aspirated are certainly pushed to much higher limits than the average road car. "Simply" timing and air/fuel? These are the critical parameters to making power and running safely.
I have Cobb Accessports for my 3 turbo cars, and it unlocks big gains when turning up the boost. I'm sure there's some vehicle/environment specific tuning that can be done on the GT3, but wouldn't expect big gains.
Street car engines putting out 125+ hp/L naturally aspirated are certainly pushed to much higher limits than the average road car. "Simply" timing and air/fuel? These are the critical parameters to making power and running safely.
This same engine is used in the 992 GT3 and most likely the 992 GT3RS. And the power is increased in the GT3 and I am willing to bet it will also be increased in the 992 RS. There is room for more power in these engines by design. I don't think they are truly "strung out" and "at their limit". We are going to see incremental increases over time from the factory.
I'm sure there's some vehicle/environment specific tuning that can be done on the GT3, but wouldn't expect big gains.
So you're skeptical of Cobb's data and claims? For example, for .2 RS on 100 octane they claim a 22% max increase in hp and 7% peak. For .2 GT3 they claims 27%/12% respectively.
Last edited by FourT6and2; 10-29-2021 at 01:29 PM.
Per the Magnuson-Moss Act, Porsche has the burden to establish that an after-market part and/or tune caused the failure for which a warranty claim is being made.
Per the Magnuson-Moss Act, Porsche has the burden to establish that an after-market part and/or tune caused the failure for which a warranty claim is being made.
I see this quoted often, I don't know of any warranty claim denied by Porsche due to performance mods, so I have not data but I am curious if people have to resort to hiring a layer to enforce this protection? I am just suspicious OEMs ignore this , deny the claim and wait to see how far the customer is prepared to go.
I see this quoted often, I don't know of any warranty claim denied by Porsche due to performance mods, so I have not data but I am curious if people have to resort to hiring a layer to enforce this protection? I am just suspicious OEMs ignore this , deny the claim and wait to see how far the customer is prepared to go.
If you install an exhaust and your engine explodes, it's gonna be pretty hard to prove the exhaust caused it. But if you retune the ECU to adjust timing and it's adjusted too far and you smash a valve against a cylinder and grenade the engine... that's another story.
I see this quoted often, I don't know of any warranty claim denied by Porsche due to performance mods, so I have not data but I am curious if people have to resort to hiring a layer to enforce this protection? I am just suspicious OEMs ignore this , deny the claim and wait to see how far the customer is prepared to go.
A new exhaust or tune will not result in a warranty denial for such items as a malfunctioning AC, stereo, power windows, windshield wipers...ect, it may very well cause Porsche to question a warranty claim for a blown engine or transmission claiming that the increased power caused it.
If you install an exhaust and your engine explodes, it's gonna be pretty hard to prove the exhaust caused it. But if you retune the ECU to adjust timing and it's adjusted too far and you smash a valve against a cylinder and grenade the engine... that's another story.
I'm getting a new-to-me 991.1 next week and am wondering; what if the ECU is tuned and a rocker arm fails? I would probably be inclined to unmarry AP (revert to stock) and then tow to dealer. Not sure how that would go over since there will likely be clear evidence that the car was reflashed.
Working with COBB products and maps before as a pro-tuner for Evo & STI platforms, granted this was a while back, but the unofficial narrative back then was "unmarry before taking the car to the dealer to avoid any potential issues with warranty" - not sure if that's so true today, and not sure how different the porsche ECU behaves in regards to logging and data retention.
If the engine damage was caused by something like a cracked ringland and the engine had clear signs of detonation, I can totally understand the dealer raising suspicion at reflash evidence
For something (mostly) unrelated to the tune (as long as rev limits have not been changed), like a rocker arm failure, I would hope that the dealer would make good on the Porsche warranty.
I'm getting a new-to-me 991.1 next week and am wondering; what if the ECU is tuned and a rocker arm fails? I would probably be inclined to unmarry AP (revert to stock) and then tow to dealer. Not sure how that would go over since there will likely be clear evidence that the car was reflashed.
Working with COBB products and maps before as a pro-tuner for Evo & STI platforms, granted this was a while back, but the unofficial narrative back then was "unmarry before taking the car to the dealer to avoid any potential issues with warranty" - not sure if that's so true today, and not sure how different the porsche ECU behaves in regards to logging and data retention.
If the engine damage was caused by something like a cracked ringland and the engine had clear signs of detonation, I can totally understand the dealer raising suspicion at reflash evidence
For something (mostly) unrelated to the tune (as long as rev limits have not been changed), like a rocker arm failure, I would hope that the dealer would make good on the Porsche warranty.
I don't know the answer to that question. But Porsche warranty is 4 years/50K miles as far as I understand it. Is your incoming car still under warranty?
I'm getting a new-to-me 991.1 next week and am wondering; what if the ECU is tuned and a rocker arm fails? I would probably be inclined to unmarry AP (revert to stock) and then tow to dealer. Not sure how that would go over since there will likely be clear evidence that the car was reflashed.
Working with COBB products and maps before as a pro-tuner for Evo & STI platforms, granted this was a while back, but the unofficial narrative back then was "unmarry before taking the car to the dealer to avoid any potential issues with warranty" - not sure if that's so true today, and not sure how different the porsche ECU behaves in regards to logging and data retention.
If the engine damage was caused by something like a cracked ringland and the engine had clear signs of detonation, I can totally understand the dealer raising suspicion at reflash evidence
For something (mostly) unrelated to the tune (as long as rev limits have not been changed), like a rocker arm failure, I would hope that the dealer would make good on the Porsche warranty.
Porsche is not going to spend a second longer than it needs to conduct "attribution" testing like that. If there is an engine failure, and the ECU is tuned (or there are other aftermarket parts installed, e.g. I/H/E), it won't be covered and you will lose any remaining warranty period. If you want to fight them in court and spend tens of thousands of more $$'s to prove a point or to try and uphold the MM act, you can choose to do so. That fight usually doesn't end up with a favorable outcome for the consumer.
Last edited by M&Abanker4life; 10-31-2021 at 11:22 AM.
The normal programming is too aggressive to upshift around 2k rpms for my tastes. I prefer the Cobb programing. It's in between Sport, and Normal. I pretty much exclusively drive in manual mode so it doesn't matter either way, but for those times it's in auto, it's a big improvement IMO.
Only on the .1's the .2 PDK OE "tuning" is flawless. You are welcome to switch cars with me next time we meet. I find it quite difficult to believe ANY company can make this transmission (on the 991.2) shift any better.
Same applies for the .1 for me. Shifts perfect and feels a bit rougher than the newer ones.
It shifts at 2k maybe but not under more than 20% load and only in the upper gears. If you drive it right, it let's you Rev. This TCUs adapt, so shift points depend on your driving style.
I would like to know if it's so easy to see that a ECU is tuned?,?
Porsche is not going to spend a second longer than it needs to conduct "attribution" testing like that. If there is an engine failure, and the ECU is tuned (or there are other aftermarket parts installed, e.g. I/H/E), it won't be covered and you will lose any remaining warranty period. If you want to fight them in court and spend tens of thousands of more $$'s to prove a point or to try and uphold the MM act, you can choose to do so. That fight usually doesn't end up with a favorable outcome for the consumer.
Bolt-ons aren't going to void your warranty. Intake, header, exhaust... come on now. If a .1 engine fails because of the known/documented issues with the finger followers, I'm skeptical Porsche is going to deny warranty because you removed a muffler.
10-29-2021, 11:45 AM
