joerg65

My 991.2 GT3 Touring has absolutely no sloppiness. I had it on the track yesterday and it’s absolutely rifle bolt. Until the car warms up it’s terrible and not much fun but once warm, I can’t imagine anything better. I can’t heal and toe this car or compete with the precision of the rev matching. I permanently drive in sport mode and use ‘flat foot’ (most of the time partial ‘flat foot’) for all shifts on and off the track which makes the 1 to 2 gear change slick every time. Without sports mode and keeping the throttle pressed, 1-2 gear changes aren’t at all smooth most of the time.

stephen k

The things you have mentioned is pretty spot on regarding the vehicle but I think that you are magnifying a lot of your results as you are comparing the vehicle to your ZR1. After reading your review I now want to driven a ZR1 LOL . Did you at least enjoy the vehicle as a whole ?

Regarding the 1-2 lurch keep your foot on the gas 10-15% through the shift and you will get smooth shifts.

3-Pedals

Guys,

Thank you so much for your feedback. As always, this forum is amazing. I truly appreciate reading everyone's comments/experience.

Regarding the ZR1, it is by far the best clutch/shifter I have experienced. I have driven/owned 997 GT3, BMW M cars, Shelby GT350, C7 ZR1, and 991.2 GT3. Of all these cars, it has the best combination of clutch stiffness, engagement point, literally 0 slack in the shifter (bolt action rifle). It is not terribly short throw (which I dont like), but very metallic. You feel no slack and every gear change is hard metal to metal contact/click. The GT3 shifter feels too much plasticky. This is also why it is probably moving around a lot, because of the plastic components. Regarding the ZR1, everyone should experience 720+ ft/lbs of torque at 1-2-3-4th gear redline shifts. It takes a lot of practice and ***** to turn off rev matching. The way rev matching works on the ZR1 is it limits (probably for good reason) torque at lower gears and smooths the clutch engagement on upshifts. When you turn this off, you realize how animal like this car. It is scary. With my RS, you have razor sharp throttle. But once you are WOT, whether you are 20% pedal input or 100%, not much changes as far as how the car keep accelerating. With the ZR1, every single 5% input on the pedal travel, up to and including 5th gear meets with more and more and more torque. So simply accelerating at WOT from 1st gear with no rev matching off is just a chore. GT3 on the other hand is so smooth and so effortless, confidence inspiring. You can WOT anywhere, anytime. With ZR1, the road must be smooth without imperfections, you cant be doing it where there is a curb/wall/trees near. You have to go through a mental checklist and be aware of every facet of the road/car/other cars around you. It commands so much effort from the driver.

This is also why ZR1 and GT3 complement each other. They arent just a manual transmission sports cars. They can be alternated and driven back to back with great enjoyment.

997 clutch and shifter is heavier/stiffer than the ZR1. I think if we give 997 setup a 10/10 (in terms of stiffness/effort), I would categorize ZR1 a good 8/10, GT350 7/10, and 991.2 GT3 5-6/10 where as BMW is 1-2/10. Not trying to offend the GT3 owners here and remember what works for me, does not work for some or vice versa. Which is why in my OP, I was trying to remove subjectivity out and not asking "what do you think of the clutch/shifter" but rather asking "do you experience/does your car exhibit such and such specific behavior". You have to understand, coming here I had 1 objective and that was to determine whether I was driving a unicorn car with history of abuse or whether all GT3s are like this. This isnt a "what do you think of a manual transmission GT3 thread".

If I do end up getting the GT3 as a +1, I will have to do the numerical shifter and also the cables. I looked at the videos online, cables dont appear terribly difficult to do. It looks like most difficult part is actually removing the console panels/climate control unit etc. Once those are out of the way, may as well do the entire thing with cables.

Sunny_M3

1) I haven't experienced any play in the shifter once in gear; it feels locked in.
2) I do notice a slight movement in the shifter when the gas is hit, but it never bothers me and it actually looks purposeful (like the components are all working in harmony).
3) I don't notice any rubbery feel; in fact, its the opposite (very precise and accurate). On the contrary, the C7 Vettes I've had in the past (Z51 and Z06) were on the rubbery side.
4) My car has only lurched forward when I stall; for me, the clutch is easy going, but has a lot of feel.

Overall, when it comes to transmission, precision, throttle response, engagement, and feel, my 991.2 GT3 > my C7 Z06 (I picked the more powerful out of the two Vettes I've owned in the past)

WernerE

Why do I get the impression this thread is a shill for a numeric shifter? Apart from the shifter moving a bit while in 4th gear, I don’t share the OP’s experience with this gearbox.

Berjar

I think the shift action in my touring is perfect. Perfect weight, feel and precision. I have driven qbout 100 manual cars and the s2000 is the only one I might possibly prefer to the Touring. I would say the clutch is very precise and easy to use but is a little too light IMHO.

josephvman

Clutch is light on the 991.2 GT3, unexpectedly so in coming from a GT4. The lever does tend to move when getting on/off throttle in the north/south plane, more so in some gears than others. I don't notice more play in the lever when in gear than any of my others cars. I don't find it rubbery, but I liked the feel of the gearbox better in my GT4, at least until it was replaced under the service bulletin and then didn't shift as well.

A few of us have had issues with clutch fluid and poor shifting (anything from notchy feel to being unable to engage gears) which were 100% corrected by bleeding the clutch fluid. I plan on making this part of my 2 year service when I bleed the brakes. There is nothing about this gearbox that makes me think it needs an upgraded shift mechanism, provided it's working as it's supposed to.

Numeric Racing

LOL

catdog2

The OP has had experience with many cars and we should learn from his experience; within the variability of manufacturing I find his/her observations useful...
I would rate my ex-GT350 7/10 as well...

usrodeo4

Again nice set of vehicles...just wanted to mention one minor point, you said the 997 clutch/shifter as 10/10 in effort/stiffness, the 997 TT is a hydraulic clutch and is effortless and while I do not know which trans the GT3 997 used vs the 997 TT, as I stated in my original reply my car had 700 WHP and a stock trans (993R Motor Mounts) and it was the best MT I have ever driven.

3-Pedals

I never drove the 997 TT, so I cant comment on that car. But based on what you are stating, it must be a completely different shifter/clutch combo vs the GT3. The GT3 clutch was the stiffest I have seen, so was the shifter. It was clear that the transmission for the GT3 was built around that car - a track car that is road legal that comes with a manual transmission. If you drove the GT3 gently, car literally would be upset. It wanted those gear shifts to be slammed, at high RPM. Whereas with 991, car was built around a PDK but manual gearbox was added later on to meet the demand. You could almost make the case that a person could own a 997 GT3 and a 991 GT3, both manual, and still enjoy both cars without getting bored as they provide unique experience. What would super cool is Porsche built an RS with a manual gearbox that has single mass flywheel, stiffer clutch. That would be a killer combo. I m pretty sure a 997.2 RS is a harsher ride than a 991.2 RS. I am also pretty sure when you do things right, it must be the most satisfying experience of all models of GT cars.

johnr265

I wonder if something is wrong with the car you drove or it just didn't have enough miles on it. I have owned my 991.2 GT3 for over 3 years and driven 13,000+ miles on it and I have not experienced any of the issues you mentioned. The shift action is butter smooth. No notchiness between gears. There is no vibration in the shifter. None. Gear to gear is dead on precise and I have never missed a gear/gate even with many redline shifts. Clutch effort is not heavy nor light (996 GT3 much heavier, Honda Civic much lighter). Now, if i wiggle the handle side to side in gear, yes there is some movement but I don't do that so there's no problem there. Overall, in my 30+ years of driving manuals, it is far and away the best I've ever driven. I have owned a C6 Z06 and a Z28 Camaro which I loved but which weren't nearly as good gearboxes.

Now, lest you think I'm just a Porsche fanboy, I did NOT have the same experience with my 997.2 RS. That gear box was really hard to shift when cold, esp 1st and 2nd gear. It would literally pop out of gear on compression braking coming up to a stoplight. I ended up having to have 1st and 2nd gear replaced on my transmission which was due to an internal recall.