Anyone regret getting 18 way instead of buckets?
08-02-2020, 11:39 AM
#61
In a winged GT3 or an RS, buckets are probably a must-have.
In the GT3T, I'm very happy with my 18-ways. IMO, they are in perfect alignment with the Touring ethos. My wife loves the fact that they are heated (can't get this with buckets). Like that they fold for access to the back. Plus, I disagree with the comments saying the buckets look better - not a carbon fiber fan...
In the GT3T, I'm very happy with my 18-ways. IMO, they are in perfect alignment with the Touring ethos. My wife loves the fact that they are heated (can't get this with buckets). Like that they fold for access to the back. Plus, I disagree with the comments saying the buckets look better - not a carbon fiber fan...
08-02-2020, 03:49 PM
#62
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You could be right! But has anyone ever said the sofas were uncomfortable? 
But my comment was made from reading many posts on this forum over the years. Of course not everyone feels the LWBs are less comfortable. Maybe there is an age bias, as younger owners tend to do better with the LWBs while older owners are a bit more sensitive to them (back issues!). I have been in both and feel that a 2-3 hour drive in the LWBs would get old where the sofas are still super comfortable. It really depends on your use case, and possibly your age. Of course plenty of exceptions.
But my comment was made from reading many posts on this forum over the years. Of course not everyone feels the LWBs are less comfortable. Maybe there is an age bias, as younger owners tend to do better with the LWBs while older owners are a bit more sensitive to them (back issues!). I have been in both and feel that a 2-3 hour drive in the LWBs would get old where the sofas are still super comfortable. It really depends on your use case, and possibly your age. Of course plenty of exceptions.LWBs are both more comfortable and easier for ingress/egress for me.
For those that say the LWBs are better for the track that’s only true to a certain extent — they allow for a harness but if you wanted to use a HANS device it’s nearly impossible. And if you track your car you really should be using a HANS device, because a harness without a HANS device is an invitation to a broken neck.
So, to summarize, the best part about the LWBs (aside from comfort for some people) is that they do really look the part. Gives you that hero credibility at Cars and Coffee.
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Porsche911GTS'16 (08-02-2020)
08-02-2020, 04:04 PM
#63
The 18 way seats are unbearable for me.
LWBs are both more comfortable and easier for ingress/egress for me.
For those that say the LWBs are better for the track that’s only true to a certain extent — they allow for a harness but if you wanted to use a HANS device it’s nearly impossible. And if you track your car you really should be using a HANS device, because a harness without a HANS device is an invitation to a broken neck.
So, to summarize, the best part about the LWBs (aside from comfort for some people) is that they do really look the part. Gives you that hero credibility at Cars and Coffee.
LWBs are both more comfortable and easier for ingress/egress for me.
For those that say the LWBs are better for the track that’s only true to a certain extent — they allow for a harness but if you wanted to use a HANS device it’s nearly impossible. And if you track your car you really should be using a HANS device, because a harness without a HANS device is an invitation to a broken neck.
So, to summarize, the best part about the LWBs (aside from comfort for some people) is that they do really look the part. Gives you that hero credibility at Cars and Coffee.
I’ve been focusing on only GT3’s with LWB‘S. Early on I pondered the idea of 18-ways for the off season, and replacing with a racing seat during the HPDE season, and even swapping out for the HPDE weekends.
Thanks!
08-02-2020, 07:59 PM
#64
There is a guy that died during a track day a few years ago in his GT3. The guy was prudent, a good driver, had full harness and HANS. But he still got killed when he hit the wall sideways. The hit wasn’t that hard but when he hit, his body was solidly strapped to the seat, the hans solidly strapped by the harness. But the LWBS don’t have head restraints like real race seats have. So when he hit, his body stayed in place but he snapped his neck. The HANS is useless in sideway collision.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
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HelpMeHelpU (08-05-2020)
08-02-2020, 08:38 PM
#65
There is a guy that died during a track day a few years ago in his GT3. The guy was prudent, a good driver, had full harness and HANS. But he still got killed when he hit the wall sideways. The hit wasn’t that hard but when he hit, his body was solidly strapped to the seat, the hans solidly strapped by the harness. But the LWBS don’t have head restraints like real race seats have. So when he hit, his body stayed in place but he snapped his neck. The HANS is useless in sideway collision.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
08-02-2020, 09:44 PM
#66
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
dixit, You are the first person to mention the HANS device with the LWBs! Can you please elaborate on the issue with using a HANS device with the LWBs?
I’ve been focusing on only GT3’s with LWB‘S. Early on I pondered the idea of 18-ways for the off season, and replacing with a racing seat during the HPDE season, and even swapping out for the HPDE weekends.
Thanks!
I’ve been focusing on only GT3’s with LWB‘S. Early on I pondered the idea of 18-ways for the off season, and replacing with a racing seat during the HPDE season, and even swapping out for the HPDE weekends.
Thanks!
One work around is the Necksgen system.
But the best solution is still a full racing halo seat, HANS, harness, cage, etc.
08-02-2020, 09:47 PM
#67
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There is a guy that died during a track day a few years ago in his GT3. The guy was prudent, a good driver, had full harness and HANS. But he still got killed when he hit the wall sideways. The hit wasn’t that hard but when he hit, his body was solidly strapped to the seat, the hans solidly strapped by the harness. But the LWBS don’t have head restraints like real race seats have. So when he hit, his body stayed in place but he snapped his neck. The HANS is useless in sideway collision.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
The point with a Porsche GT car is that it is both streetable and trackable. Yes, there's going to be compromises, but that's the price you pay for having a "Swiss Army knife" kind of track car setup.
You want to mitigate the risks without making the car entirely undrivable on the street. That said, I think a aftermarket bucket seat (sans halo), harness, and some sort of HANS device, maximizes both safety and drivability on the street.
08-03-2020, 12:46 AM
#68
Originally Posted by ipse dixit;[url=tel:16818659
16818659[/url]]You do all that, halo seat, cage, harness, etc., then you might as well get a dedicated track car (that's no longer streetable or DOT approved).
The point with a Porsche GT car is that it is both streetable and trackable. Yes, there's going to be compromises, but that's the price you pay for having a "Swiss Army knife" kind of track car setup.
You want to mitigate the risks without making the car entirely undrivable on the street. That said, I think a aftermarket bucket seat (sans halo), harness, and some sort of HANS device, maximizes both safety and drivability on the street.
The point with a Porsche GT car is that it is both streetable and trackable. Yes, there's going to be compromises, but that's the price you pay for having a "Swiss Army knife" kind of track car setup.
You want to mitigate the risks without making the car entirely undrivable on the street. That said, I think a aftermarket bucket seat (sans halo), harness, and some sort of HANS device, maximizes both safety and drivability on the street.
Porsche sells us street cars that happen to be great on track. But they are street cars. Their race cars have every modern safety devices. If you look at Kevin Estre making his sub 7min lap, he has a race seat with halo. Porsche doesn’t mess with safety and the Nürburgring has safety rules for manufacturers day that may or may not include halo seats I don’t know.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
08-03-2020, 01:19 AM
#69
Originally Posted by mjdcolo;[url=tel:16818537
16818537[/url]]Interesting take on “racing” seats. Thank you. If the racing seats without halo support are that dangerous, why do so many racing seat companies make them (Recaro, Corbeau, OMP, Cobra, etc)? And why are they acceptable at HPDE’s with 5-6 point restraints? I do know the rule changed last year that if you have a 5-6 point restraint, you must have a HANS device, and if you have a passenger, they must have everything, also.
As we learn rules are adjusted. Halo seats are not mandatory for now for tack days but it could change. Just like half cages/roll bar might become mandatory if you have a race seat and harness.
That’s why I said the conclusion from our discussions between instructors was to have everything or nothing. Rules are only updated as accidents happen.
08-03-2020, 04:25 AM
#71
Burning Brakes
The lwb are so far past overkill for the street it’s laughable. My biz partner calls my rs the coffin because of them. Unless you get an rs where it’s a no cost option, and you are younger and can be okay getting in and out of the car, I think your better off Just getting the standard 4 ways. In no universe would I call them comfortable, you just get used to them.
I track My cars 4 or 5x a year and if you need the lwb to drive Well on a racetrack I think you got other issues As the standard “sofas” are one of the best sports car seats in the industry and work great on last cars I’ve tracked. My next gt3 I would 100% get sofas, if I got another rs probably go with Lwb as it’s a no cost and fits the style slightly more but buying used I wouldn’t care.
lastly if you are buying a gt3 or rs for resale value based on the options you are overthinking it. In the realm of taxes, depreciation, registration, insurance maintenance Etc if your car has X option and not Y isn’t going to mean anything in the long run. Just get the one that makes your eyes light up
I track My cars 4 or 5x a year and if you need the lwb to drive Well on a racetrack I think you got other issues As the standard “sofas” are one of the best sports car seats in the industry and work great on last cars I’ve tracked. My next gt3 I would 100% get sofas, if I got another rs probably go with Lwb as it’s a no cost and fits the style slightly more but buying used I wouldn’t care.
lastly if you are buying a gt3 or rs for resale value based on the options you are overthinking it. In the realm of taxes, depreciation, registration, insurance maintenance Etc if your car has X option and not Y isn’t going to mean anything in the long run. Just get the one that makes your eyes light up
08-04-2020, 11:03 AM
#72
Race Director
The 18 way seats are unbearable for me.
LWBs are both more comfortable and easier for ingress/egress for me.
For those that say the LWBs are better for the track that’s only true to a certain extent — they allow for a harness but if you wanted to use a HANS device it’s nearly impossible. And if you track your car you really should be using a HANS device, because a harness without a HANS device is an invitation to a broken neck.
So, to summarize, the best part about the LWBs (aside from comfort for some people) is that they do really look the part. Gives you that hero credibility at Cars and Coffee.
LWBs are both more comfortable and easier for ingress/egress for me.
For those that say the LWBs are better for the track that’s only true to a certain extent — they allow for a harness but if you wanted to use a HANS device it’s nearly impossible. And if you track your car you really should be using a HANS device, because a harness without a HANS device is an invitation to a broken neck.
So, to summarize, the best part about the LWBs (aside from comfort for some people) is that they do really look the part. Gives you that hero credibility at Cars and Coffee.
08-05-2020, 02:50 AM
#73
if you spec a touring, which is supposed to be more a street car, you'd better have the 18 ways seats. You will never regret it, your back too.
_______________
19' Speedster
18' Touring
13' Boxster
Gone but not forgotten :
15' Targa
16' Spyder
_______________
19' Speedster
18' Touring
13' Boxster
Gone but not forgotten :
15' Targa
16' Spyder
03-15-2021, 09:10 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
There is a guy that died during a track day a few years ago in his GT3. The guy was prudent, a good driver, had full harness and HANS. But he still got killed when he hit the wall sideways. The hit wasn’t that hard but when he hit, his body was solidly strapped to the seat, the hans solidly strapped by the harness. But the LWBS don’t have head restraints like real race seats have. So when he hit, his body stayed in place but he snapped his neck. The HANS is useless in sideway collision.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
My fellow instructors and myself had lengthy discussions about what is safe on a race track. Our conclusion is, you either have nothing or you have everything.
4 point harness= dangerous as you can slide under and get badly hurt.
5 point harness= dangerous search for rally drivers exploded ball sack on google!!!
6 point safe. But without a roll cage in case of roll over you can get crushed in your seat and die. I’ve yet to hear about such a case though. But generally speaking, racing series will always require at least a half cage if you have a harness.
3 point seat belt is safe in any situation. At least not particularly dangerous in a specific situation.
Hans safe in a front collision. Will kill you in a sideway collision. So you need a bucket seat with head restraint.
3 point belt with regular seat and no HANS will not kill you. It might not be as safe in every situation. But there is not a single situation where this would kill you as being totally unsafe.
The LWBS is not dangerous by itself, but it is not safe enough for a hans/harness set up. In an otherwise stock set up (3point seat belt) the buckets are not more dangerous than the normal seats.
It is a dangerous sport and everyone makes his own decisions regarding security. As an instructor I prefer a stock set up to an half complete one. I also always wear my nomex suit, you never know. I’ve seen racers caught in a burning car, you can never be too prudent.
03-15-2021, 10:05 PM
#75
Burning Brakes
At 1.2 to 1.5Gs in a corner your telling me your not sliding around in a 4 way seat?
I move in the LWB and I'm 6,1 215 lbs.
There are Leatt devices and neck collars and Simpson has a new harness as well to protect the clavicle it's up to what your needs are.
In my Single seater I feel it restricts my head to much at times when I am looking around. But I still use the device
I move in the LWB and I'm 6,1 215 lbs.
There are Leatt devices and neck collars and Simpson has a new harness as well to protect the clavicle it's up to what your needs are.
In my Single seater I feel it restricts my head to much at times when I am looking around. But I still use the device
Last edited by flyjets; 03-15-2021 at 10:12 PM.