Tay101

I recently joined the PCA and took my car to Black Forest to be tech'd before an HPDE. I currently have the Cantrell sub-belt mount that attaches to the carbon buckets and Black Forest said it wasn't approved by PCA as it needs to be mounted to the chassis/floor. So I would need to get the one offered by GMG.

Has any else experienced this?

tgibrit

Interesting, first time I have seen this reported. I believe the oem carbon buckets have a bar under the seat for the sub mount bar, I was trying to determine if I could use that rather than having to add an after market sub-belt mount. Where do Porsche mount the sub-belt on the Weissach package sold in Europe?

Spyerx

is this for a PCA SDR event? take it to another shop. I'm actually surprised they got that detailed with looking.

Or, just remove the belts and show you're using factory 3pt harnesses

I've looked at the rules in the past but not recently, it's likely something on the order of requiring factory mount positions or floor mounted with backing plates. On a car you're likely not going to keep a long time I wouldn't drill the floor...

Tay101

Another thing about Black Forest, it was there first time having a 991 anything in the shop. I don't even think they've has a 997 in the shop. So I think they have been dealing with a lot of old/track built cars with full cages etc.

CobaltCr

this is not true. which bar are you talking about?

tgibrit

I was told by CMS the OEM carbon buckets have a bar under the seat, as I haven't don't have the harness bar installed yet I have not personally taken the seat out to check.

Todd B

There's a bar there, but it's for the leaver to adjust the seat on the tracks front to back. Not something you would want to use for the sub belt. You need one of the add on's to properly attach the belt.

Spyerx

Black Forest is a good shop. For air cooled cars. Take it to mirage. Jae works on all and is awesome. Not skirting rules here but there are some grey areas.

452gt3

Black Forest is a quality shop that has worked on many 991's including mine. The bar that is you attached too is not meant for that purpose, you need to get the proper mounting bracket and go have fun, not search for other shops to allow it.

Mvez

This is why Schroth 4pt Porsche bucket specific belts are perfect for DE's. Way safer, more secure than 3pt, and just a tad less than 5pt., but still fully legal. Way easier and overall less expensive to install, with virtually identical safety.

It boggles the mind how under-used these are in the GT3/GT4 community. Everybody must just love hacking holes in their passenger carbon buckets, or having a bulky, ugly sub-belt on their nuts when they drive. "Good" shops should be recommending these more often.

I love mine for a dual-purpose track car.
https://www.schrothracing.com/produc...sche-harnesses

Mr. Turtles

I guess I just like the added safety of the 6pt with subbelt, and its never bothered me for street driving. Just push it forward or back into the seat. Just a matter of preference but I guess I'm sold on a 6pt as being slightly safer. I'd put a full cage in if it was legal for the street. Putting in a submount and making a hole in the passenger seat (its already there in the driver side) was really no big deal so that's why I went ahead with the 6pt.

Mech33

I use a Cantrell substrap bar. Love it. That said if I was doing it over I’d probably go with the 4-points and call it a day.

tgibrit

thanks for thee clarification.

krell

This.

A friend just picked up a 2016 GT4 and I told him to get these harnesses and be done with it.

KOAN

Can you use a HANS with a 4 point? They say NO. Also, what prevents the waist belt from being pulled up onto the abdomen in the case of a sudden deceleration accident, resulting in abdominal injury? One of the shoulder belts slackens, effectively turning it into a street 3 pt. belt. That is what "ASM" technology means. Schroth recommends NOT using their 4 point belt in competition. The safety of a 4 pt. relies on being safely saved by an airbag.

Many years ago, I installed a 4 pt Schroth harness in an Audi. It made me think I was safer. It felt pretty "racey." One of our local events outlawed them. In my next car, I put in a roll bar, a 6 pt and started using a HANS.

The 4 pt. is clearly a compromise in safety compared to a 5 or 6 pt. It is much easier to install. Make any decision you want, but do it with both eyes open. At a minimum, if you are going to use a 4 pt then my recommendation would be to get a Simpson Hybrid Hans device. I say this as an 18 year DE instructor and as a physician.