View Poll Results: Is PDK a "manual?"
Yes
27
13.50%
No
173
86.50%
Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll
Is PDK a "manual?"
10-13-2019, 09:39 PM
#46
No, a manual means it has a clutch pedal. Maybe millenials want to be cool calling a pdk a manual but its not...... It reminds me of the times i talk about cars to non car people... the best is the guy who has a mercedes who manually shifts in the middle from "1" to "2" to "3" "it faster when I use my manual" 
10-13-2019, 10:10 PM
#47
No, a manual means it has a clutch pedal. Maybe millenials want to be cool calling a pdk a manual but its not...... It reminds me of the times i talk about cars to non car people... the best is the guy who has a mercedes who manually shifts in the middle from "1" to "2" to "3" "it faster when I use my manual"
The conventional single clutch box is derived directly from the Porsche double clutch box 😀. The former has a two levers and one clutch the latter has two clutches and one lever. Both are manual and one has the ability to change automatically if the driver so wishes the other doesn’t.
Last edited by groundhog; 10-13-2019 at 10:29 PM.
10-13-2019, 10:49 PM
#48
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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What kind of thread is this???
u guys need a therapist if u need to wonder if a chicken might be instead a dog just because living both in a farm
u guys need a therapist if u need to wonder if a chicken might be instead a dog just because living both in a farm
The following 4 users liked this post by fxz:
10-13-2019, 11:16 PM
#49
Drifting
Thread Starter
This thread has proven even more amusing and thought-provoking than I thought it would. Thanks for the feedback. Glad to know I am in agreement with the vast majority on this one. 
10-13-2019, 11:23 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
There are no stupid questions... And this one is close.
Really? There’s manual, automatic, and PDK (paddle). They are distinctly different.
In today’s world we regularly change the meaning of words... Someday maybe this too. Today? Hell no!
Really? There’s manual, automatic, and PDK (paddle). They are distinctly different.
In today’s world we regularly change the meaning of words... Someday maybe this too. Today? Hell no!
10-13-2019, 11:38 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
If you shift manually it’s a manual 😀 left foot on brake pedal, right foot on accelerator pedal, hands on the paddle shifter. Optimal manual driving and much greater flexibility. 😀
The conventional single clutch box is derived directly from the Porsche double clutch box 😀. The former has a two levers and one clutch the latter has two clutches and one lever. Both are manual and one has the ability to change automatically if the driver so wishes the other doesn’t.
The conventional single clutch box is derived directly from the Porsche double clutch box 😀. The former has a two levers and one clutch the latter has two clutches and one lever. Both are manual and one has the ability to change automatically if the driver so wishes the other doesn’t.
This thread has replies that are big on conjecture and extremely light, to non-existent on facts. Beginning with the logic above, every single automatic transmission including the very first "selec-shift" autos from Dodge, and the whole "tiptronic" auto box in the VAG world would be considered a manual. Seeing as how the 997 market avoids tiptronic cars like the plague, this is obviously not the case. Furthermore, you can "manually shift" any Nissan CVT trans out there, where it does its best rendition to simulate gears. So now, by your logic, we have a manual transmission with no clutch and indeed, NO GEARS. Furthermore, there are other auto boxes that further blur the line. Mercedes has recently been using a standard auto box with planetary gear set, but instead of a fluid coupling (torque converter) it has a more standard clutch setup ahead of the transmission. So now you have a very standard auto box that can do neutral drops just like a PDK.
Next, we need to define what an "automatic" transmission is in the classical sense. This term, used in a derogatory manner in this thread, refers to a standard fluid coupling (torque converter) which feeds a planetary gear set. A manual transmission uses a standard clutch which feeds two gear sets on two shafts (to use a standard generic). In the past, the fluid coupling along with slow engagement of the bands, fewer gears, and high power usage by the trans pump lead to poor performance. This has since been corrected with lock-up converters that lock as soon as the vehicle moves and mechatronics packages that shift faster than the fastest PDK, as well as extreme improvement in design and efficiency. The new 8 speed ZF is a great example of this.
The PDK is based on the two shaft gear set architecture, like a manual, and has a clutch ahead of the box (two, actually). That said, the PDK shares similarities to a standard auto that a manual does not. First of all the clutch bands and friction discs within the PDK clutch pack look like, and are, modified auto box parts. The fluid used is a modified ATF with a different friction modifier package. It has similar hydraulic circuits and uses a mechatronics package as well, obviously. There is a fluid pump, more mechanical power loss due to said pump, and additional cooling needed over a standard manual transmission.
Finally, you aren't "manually" shifting the PDK when you press a button. You're simply instructing the computer to disregard its routines which are superior in both performance and economy scenarios to allow you to select when you want it to: to disengage the A clutch, engage the B clutch, more the shaft A selector to the next gear, match rpm, torque interrupt, etc. These are all things done by the driver in a manual transmission car with rev-match turned off.
I'm not here to debate which is "better." They are both excellent, excellent machines. Better is merely a personal decision for each enthusiast.
The following 2 users liked this post by A418t81:
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10-14-2019, 12:04 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
Is a Beyond Burger beef?
10-14-2019, 12:16 AM
#53
Drifting
Thread Starter
A418t81- wow, you know your transmissions. Thanks for teaching me something. I agree with you that both the Porsche MT and PDK are outstanding gear boxes. I am fortunate to have one of each. Best of both worlds. I too am not arguing their brilliance, nor am I interested in saying one is better than the other. I am blown away by both each time I drive my cars.
The following users liked this post:
A418t81 (10-15-2019)
10-14-2019, 12:41 AM
#54
Race Director
Originally Posted by fxz
What kind of thread is this???
u guys need a therapist if u need to wonder if a chicken might be instead a dog just because living both in a farm
u guys need a therapist if u need to wonder if a chicken might be instead a dog just because living both in a farm
10-14-2019, 01:49 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Wait. So I guess Porsche does have a manual gt3rs 991. At least according to 19 people.
fk-tards
fk-tards
10-14-2019, 03:59 AM
#56
Typical track question from fellow Porsche owners and other drivers - "do you run in manual and change your own cogs or run in auto" answer "if its wet I generally shift myself, if its a road course bit of both".
Real world reality remains the same, if you are shifting yourself - its manual
10-14-2019, 04:07 AM
#57
Your logic is off base, and I can't help but take the bait. So here goes:
This thread has replies that are big on conjecture and extremely light, to non-existent on facts. Beginning with the logic above, every single automatic transmission including the very first "selec-shift" autos from Dodge, and the whole "tiptronic" auto box in the VAG world would be considered a manual. Seeing as how the 997 market avoids tiptronic cars like the plague, this is obviously not the case. Furthermore, you can "manually shift" any Nissan CVT trans out there, where it does its best rendition to simulate gears. So now, by your logic, we have a manual transmission with no clutch and indeed, NO GEARS. Furthermore, there are other auto boxes that further blur the line. Mercedes has recently been using a standard auto box with planetary gear set, but instead of a fluid coupling (torque converter) it has a more standard clutch setup ahead of the transmission. So now you have a very standard auto box that can do neutral drops just like a PDK.
Next, we need to define what an "automatic" transmission is in the classical sense. This term, used in a derogatory manner in this thread, refers to a standard fluid coupling (torque converter) which feeds a planetary gear set. A manual transmission uses a standard clutch which feeds two gear sets on two shafts (to use a standard generic). In the past, the fluid coupling along with slow engagement of the bands, fewer gears, and high power usage by the trans pump lead to poor performance. This has since been corrected with lock-up converters that lock as soon as the vehicle moves and mechatronics packages that shift faster than the fastest PDK, as well as extreme improvement in design and efficiency. The new 8 speed ZF is a great example of this.
The PDK is based on the two shaft gear set architecture, like a manual, and has a clutch ahead of the box (two, actually). That said, the PDK shares similarities to a standard auto that a manual does not. First of all the clutch bands and friction discs within the PDK clutch pack look like, and are, modified auto box parts. The fluid used is a modified ATF with a different friction modifier package. It has similar hydraulic circuits and uses a mechatronics package as well, obviously. There is a fluid pump, more mechanical power loss due to said pump, and additional cooling needed over a standard manual transmission.
Finally, you aren't "manually" shifting the PDK when you press a button. You're simply instructing the computer to disregard its routines which are superior in both performance and economy scenarios to allow you to select when you want it to: to disengage the A clutch, engage the B clutch, more the shaft A selector to the next gear, match rpm, torque interrupt, etc. These are all things done by the driver in a manual transmission car with rev-match turned off.
I'm not here to debate which is "better." They are both excellent, excellent machines. Better is merely a personal decision for each enthusiast.
This thread has replies that are big on conjecture and extremely light, to non-existent on facts. Beginning with the logic above, every single automatic transmission including the very first "selec-shift" autos from Dodge, and the whole "tiptronic" auto box in the VAG world would be considered a manual. Seeing as how the 997 market avoids tiptronic cars like the plague, this is obviously not the case. Furthermore, you can "manually shift" any Nissan CVT trans out there, where it does its best rendition to simulate gears. So now, by your logic, we have a manual transmission with no clutch and indeed, NO GEARS. Furthermore, there are other auto boxes that further blur the line. Mercedes has recently been using a standard auto box with planetary gear set, but instead of a fluid coupling (torque converter) it has a more standard clutch setup ahead of the transmission. So now you have a very standard auto box that can do neutral drops just like a PDK.
Next, we need to define what an "automatic" transmission is in the classical sense. This term, used in a derogatory manner in this thread, refers to a standard fluid coupling (torque converter) which feeds a planetary gear set. A manual transmission uses a standard clutch which feeds two gear sets on two shafts (to use a standard generic). In the past, the fluid coupling along with slow engagement of the bands, fewer gears, and high power usage by the trans pump lead to poor performance. This has since been corrected with lock-up converters that lock as soon as the vehicle moves and mechatronics packages that shift faster than the fastest PDK, as well as extreme improvement in design and efficiency. The new 8 speed ZF is a great example of this.
The PDK is based on the two shaft gear set architecture, like a manual, and has a clutch ahead of the box (two, actually). That said, the PDK shares similarities to a standard auto that a manual does not. First of all the clutch bands and friction discs within the PDK clutch pack look like, and are, modified auto box parts. The fluid used is a modified ATF with a different friction modifier package. It has similar hydraulic circuits and uses a mechatronics package as well, obviously. There is a fluid pump, more mechanical power loss due to said pump, and additional cooling needed over a standard manual transmission.
Finally, you aren't "manually" shifting the PDK when you press a button. You're simply instructing the computer to disregard its routines which are superior in both performance and economy scenarios to allow you to select when you want it to: to disengage the A clutch, engage the B clutch, more the shaft A selector to the next gear, match rpm, torque interrupt, etc. These are all things done by the driver in a manual transmission car with rev-match turned off.
I'm not here to debate which is "better." They are both excellent, excellent machines. Better is merely a personal decision for each enthusiast.
BTW Tiptroinc uses a torque converter too (instead of a clutch). "In the PDK, the gears are distributed between two separate clutches. ... Similar to a manual shifter, the individual gears are selected using shift forks; in the PDK system, it's done through computer-aided electrohydraulics. The result is a synthesis of manual and automatic shifting."
Lifted straight from Porsche
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019...pdk-18768.htmlFun thread
Last edited by groundhog; 10-14-2019 at 04:41 AM.
10-14-2019, 04:30 AM
#58
A PDK box is a DCT(Dual clutch transmission) which is neither a Manual or an Auto..An auto is either a TC or CVT and totally different to a Manual..There are three different type of gearboxes which are Manual,DCT and Auto which quite simply means than no one above is correct and PDK is neither.
This is arguing over nothing and has no end, a bit like politicians debating the pros and cons of Brexit.
This is arguing over nothing and has no end, a bit like politicians debating the pros and cons of Brexit.
10-14-2019, 04:53 AM
#59
A PDK box is a DCT(Dual clutch transmission) which is neither a Manual or an Auto..An auto is either a TC or CVT and totally different to a Manual..There are three different type of gearboxes which are Manual,DCT and Auto which quite simply means than no one above is correct and PDK is neither.
This is arguing over nothing and has no end, a bit like politicians debating the pros and cons of Brexit.
This is arguing over nothing and has no end, a bit like politicians debating the pros and cons of Brexit.
Two clutches Vs one
Electro-hydraulic activated Vs foot triggered hydraulic fork
Effectively two manual transmissions in one box Vs one manual transmission in one box
Last edited by groundhog; 10-14-2019 at 05:24 AM.
