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It's plain silly to ask if your 991 or any modern Porsche for that matter will be worth a grillion dollars. Please wake up and smell the coffee.
Here are the numbers for anyone who wants a dose of reality. Lists out all RSes (except the '74 3.0 and the 964/993 RSRs, being unobtanium in-period), purchased new from factory at either GER or UK list price, converted at prevailing currency rates. In $-terms and measured against rough current market value, these are the annualized returns.
Footnotes: 1. US pricing not applicable, as many of these models weren't imported in-period due to homologation or economics. RoW trade & auction also a deeper pool of CMV data. 2. The 964 3.8 shouldn't belong to the above, but since there's good data I included it anyway 3. FX is average of beginning and year-end rates for the year during which the given model was on sale 4. Est. CMV is just what it is, a rough estimate for an average quality car. +/- 15-20% differences really don't matter over the duration of analysis for most of these cars.
In compiling the above I'm not axed to antagonize any self-claimed "collectors" out there. I did the above over 30 minutes with the help of Google and auction data off the top of my head. It is not scientific, and was done really to address my curiosity. As RLers who know me in person will tell, I'm very vested in the Porsche brand, in both classics and in motorsport.
So what does this tell?
Only 3 RSes in history have delivered returns in excess of typical mutual funds. THREE, in all 50 years of rennsport history!!
With that in mind, now consider the likelihood of the average Joe like us, landing an exception like one of these three? That is, the next 964 3.8 or 997 4.0. FROM FACTORY. Paying ADM or buying in the secondary doesn't count, as that only further dilutes returns.
I've seen enough of these numbers to know how I should look at my cars. They'll retain the bulk of their value if chosen wisely. But even the LOUSIEST of investment vehicles are likely to outperform the best of Porsche's regular lineup.
At the end of the day, if our car came from a dealer, know better than to expect the extraordinary. Just how this game works.
Interesting you took the time to do that, but I will bite on a few items:
-Those values are on the low side, even in a down mkt for example current mkt value of a 2.7RS is 600-650 not 450. If you have any cherry examples I'd be happy to take them off your hands! 3-4 years ago that number was 750 and over a mil for lightweight and I'm quite sure those values will return over time.
-As for the 964 3.8 RS/RSR there were 55 of each made. The RS surprisingly enough is worth more than the RSR most likely due to the fact you can drive it on regular roads and can be imported without duty since they are 25 years old +. A pristine example is more in the range of 1.5-1.6 and the top (ie not driven which also has a fun per miles opportunity cost) 2% approaching 2mil.
-Personal tidbit a 997 3.8 RS sold for 275 with less than 300 miles.
The point here is any classic 911 value is going to be a balance between miles/condition and rarity, almost always going to be an appreciating asset -until they outlaw gasoline- and return an enormous ROI of smiles/mile!
Longer reply: Basically in one post you've shown that a buyer should just about never think about making money on these cars (enjoy the miles instead). In addition, you've invalidated not just this post (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...e-classic.html) which has 84 replies, but also every other post like it. I'd say your post was less of a waste of time than those posts, then.
So basically we have another value thread....shocking
In the same way an anti-cigarette PSA is still about smoking eh, you right on that count
Originally Posted by konaforever
So you’re saying there’s a chance.
"Feelin' lucky?"
Originally Posted by cscrogham
-Those values are on the low side, even in a down mkt for example current mkt value of a 2.7RS is 600-650 not 450. If you have any cherry examples I'd be happy to take them off your hands! 3-4 years ago that number was 750 and over a mil for lightweight and I'm quite sure those values will return over time.
-As for the 964 3.8 RS/RSR there were 55 of each made. The RS surprisingly enough is worth more than the RSR most likely due to the fact you can drive it on regular roads and can be imported without duty since they are 25 years old +. A pristine example is more in the range of 1.5-1.6 and the top (ie not driven which also has a fun per miles opportunity cost) 2% approaching 2mil.
-Personal tidbit a 997 3.8 RS sold for 275 with less than 300 miles.
The point here is any classic 911 value is going to be a balance between miles/condition and rarity, almost always going to be an appreciating asset -until they outlaw gasoline- and return an enormous ROI of smiles/mile!
You're right I wasn't trying to capture the best of breed and est. values are net of auction premiums. The RSRs are an interesting exercise: a discounted entry into an even rawer experience is the appeal (a big one for me), but just thinking about the work (and knowledge) required to rebuild that suspension, engine and gearbox to pristine condition... that's enough to set my hair on fire...
Originally Posted by Bobby 911
agree, it’s amazing the disposable time some of you guys have.
OCD vs. non-OCD. For those afflicted with this condition, once they ID a problem they gotta get to the bottom of it. In this case I think I've done myself a service!!
8% irr is not hard to beat
most value escalation were recent so IRR is not fair calc, the NPV would be much lower and worthless.
but you know that.
we are all fk'd
but it's ok
we will all die from global warming, after all climate changes wiped out the almighty dinosaurs.
so no need to have any money left, last I checked, hell doesn't take regular currencies.
sex favors works well down in hell.
but just in case, I will call them to see if crypto works in hell.
If anyone has a 993 RS that they want to sell for $225K (or anywhere close to that), I'm interested. You can put your money to work on a better investment, I'll take the loser RS.
I did the same analysis recently. However, add a few things, then correct for a real NPV/IRR... add insurance and maintenance. Watch them go negative across board.
If anyone has a 993 RS that they want to sell for $225K (or anywhere close to that), I'm interested. You can put your money to work on a better investment, I'll take the loser RS.
The 25-year rule is going to allow easy importation of those starting next year...
10-02-2019, 11:54 PM
READ & THINK: AM I A CLASSIC? / WHAT VALUE?
