GT3 vs ZR1 - More observations...
10-21-2019, 11:14 AM
#166
Instructor
Gorgeous ZR1!!
Jason Camissa said in the mid engine forum that the C8 does not have the steering feel and 'playfulness' of the C7 and the Alpha Chassis. Apparently the steering is phenomenal in the C7 according to him.
As someone who previously owned a C7 Z06 and now a ZL1 1LE... high praise.
How is the steering feel in the ZR1 compared to your GT3 Rob? Curious as to your feedback.
Jason Camissa said in the mid engine forum that the C8 does not have the steering feel and 'playfulness' of the C7 and the Alpha Chassis. Apparently the steering is phenomenal in the C7 according to him.
As someone who previously owned a C7 Z06 and now a ZL1 1LE... high praise.
How is the steering feel in the ZR1 compared to your GT3 Rob? Curious as to your feedback.
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robmypro (10-21-2019)
10-21-2019, 02:43 PM
#167
Race Director
Thread Starter
Gorgeous ZR1!!
Jason Camissa said in the mid engine forum that the C8 does not have the steering feel and 'playfulness' of the C7 and the Alpha Chassis. Apparently the steering is phenomenal in the C7 according to him.
As someone who previously owned a C7 Z06 and now a ZL1 1LE... high praise.
How is the steering feel in the ZR1 compared to your GT3 Rob? Curious as to your feedback.
Jason Camissa said in the mid engine forum that the C8 does not have the steering feel and 'playfulness' of the C7 and the Alpha Chassis. Apparently the steering is phenomenal in the C7 according to him.
As someone who previously owned a C7 Z06 and now a ZL1 1LE... high praise.
How is the steering feel in the ZR1 compared to your GT3 Rob? Curious as to your feedback.
10-21-2019, 08:05 PM
#168
Rennlist Member
I bought a 2019 slightly used Grand Sport last week. I have a C8 coming supposedly in February and figured I would play with this for a few months and then trade it in (I have car ADHD). Anyway, took it to the track Friday. Mechanical grip is amazing, but 3rd to 4th gear sucks (too long). The car is also really small and I don't fit well inside (6'3" and overweight). I think it is a great value at what I paid, but definitely is not a keeper to me. I like our Cayman a lot better.
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robmypro (10-21-2019)
10-21-2019, 09:32 PM
#169
After a bit more driving, the accuracy and connected feel of the GT3 compared to the ZR1 is more apparent. The RS even more so. For me the GT3 just feels more buttoned down even though the grip level of the ZR1 is higher. The GT3 is easier to exploit.
One other observation that has become even more clear is the throttle response. Both off-on and on-off, the GT3 is much more crisp. But the ZR1 is just an absolute blast. The power/torque, the noise, the removable top, it's good old fashion fun. I think I mentioned already, the C8 will certainly be a better car objectively, but it is has big shoes to fill to be as fun. End of an era in fine fashion. RIP FR and RIP MT.
One other observation that has become even more clear is the throttle response. Both off-on and on-off, the GT3 is much more crisp. But the ZR1 is just an absolute blast. The power/torque, the noise, the removable top, it's good old fashion fun. I think I mentioned already, the C8 will certainly be a better car objectively, but it is has big shoes to fill to be as fun. End of an era in fine fashion. RIP FR and RIP MT.
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robmypro (10-21-2019)
10-22-2019, 09:29 AM
#170
Instructor
You guys should really drive a Camaro SS 1LE or a ZL1 1LE and report back. What GM did with the execution of the Alpha platform in those cars is nothing short of remarkable.
Even Jason Cammissa noted that the chassis of the Alpha is among the world's best and that the C8 can't touch it for balance and playfulness. As someone who's owned a multitude or M cars, a C7 Z06 and ZL1 1LE. I can tell you the Alpha platform is absolutely delish.
Even Jason Cammissa noted that the chassis of the Alpha is among the world's best and that the C8 can't touch it for balance and playfulness. As someone who's owned a multitude or M cars, a C7 Z06 and ZL1 1LE. I can tell you the Alpha platform is absolutely delish.
10-22-2019, 10:45 AM
#171
Race Director
Originally Posted by Checkmate
You guys should really drive a Camaro SS 1LE or a ZL1 1LE and report back. What GM did with the execution of the Alpha platform in those cars is nothing short of remarkable.
Even Jason Cammissa noted that the chassis of the Alpha is among the world's best and that the C8 can't touch it for balance and playfulness. As someone who's owned a multitude or M cars, a C7 Z06 and ZL1 1LE. I can tell you the Alpha platform is absolutely delish.
Even Jason Cammissa noted that the chassis of the Alpha is among the world's best and that the C8 can't touch it for balance and playfulness. As someone who's owned a multitude or M cars, a C7 Z06 and ZL1 1LE. I can tell you the Alpha platform is absolutely delish.
10-22-2019, 11:15 AM
#173
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
My only issue with the camaro is visibility and headroom with a helmet.
yes, it’s not an s-class in terms of ride comfort but you don’t have to worry about swallowing your fillings either.
yes, it’s not an s-class in terms of ride comfort but you don’t have to worry about swallowing your fillings either.
10-22-2019, 01:56 PM
#174
Race Director
Thread Starter
I rented a Camaro a few years ago. My head hit the roof and I am not tall. Visibility was the worst of any car I had been in. Literally felt like I was driving a bomb shelter. I might have bought a Z/28 but that experience killed it for me.
10-23-2019, 10:46 AM
#175
Rennlist Member
I bought a 2019 slightly used Grand Sport last week. I have a C8 coming supposedly in February and figured I would play with this for a few months and then trade it in (I have car ADHD). Anyway, took it to the track Friday. Mechanical grip is amazing, but 3rd to 4th gear sucks (too long). The car is also really small and I don't fit well inside (6'3" and overweight). I think it is a great value at what I paid, but definitely is not a keeper to me. I like our Cayman a lot better.
1st and 2nd gear are perfectly geared. 3rd is a little long, but 4th gear is a problem. I thought I had shifted into 6th, the car felt lethargic. Later when I got home, I went back to specs and test results from the media.
Chevrolet messed up the gearing in the C7-Z51 and C7-GS, 4th gear goes to 151mph, while 2nd goes to 73mph and 3rd to 106mph. The GS takes 24secs to reach 150mph, to put this in perspective, a 385Hp Cayman GT4 does it in 22secs, a 475Hp 991.1 GT3 gets to 150mph in 18secs.
The Camaro doesn't do it for me, I can't see out of it.
For a track day car with affordable consumables, the C7GS is a nice choice, but suddenly the ZR1 is looking pretty appealing. The C7-Z06, not a chance, it overheats in my weather.
05-21-2021, 10:37 AM
#176
Bumping an old thread as I would like to provide my input on some of the ZR1 observations posted here and what I did to address them:
- Throttle response : ZR1 comes from the factory (similar to all other GM cars) with a fairly decent amount of throttle lag built in. This is done specifically to deal with EPA mpg ratings. If you ever drive on a highway with a 6.2 liter engine (and a 2.9 liter super charger on it), you will very quickly see your trip odometer go from 23 to 4 with as little as 5% more pedal input. To address this, the first 10% or so of the throttle response doesnt translate the same amount of throttle butterfly function. Its an inverse exponential. This is easily fixed and costs around $100 by getting something like Soler engineering throttle controller. Its a little device that you plug into your gas pedal sensor that reroutes the gas pedal signal before that lag is removed. When you do remove it, there is a drastic and I mean very drastic change in the gas pedal feel. I went a little further also and added ported throttle body to my ZR1. Same thing goes for the throttle body where it is tuned for maximum fuel efficiency at idle. You trade off some mpg for initial off the line throttle sensitivity. These two upgrade cost me around $300-400 and it was the best money I spent. If a GT3/RS throttle response is 10/10, ZR1 before the updates were 5/10. After the updates it is an easy 8.5/10. It is still not same as GT3, but so close that it is hard to notice the difference. Heel and toe is much easier as a result of these updates.
- Suspension stiffness : ZR1 is a stiffer car than a .2 GT3RS. Full stop. I have put now 18,000 miles combined to both cars. GT3RS is much more refined and observes bumps/microbumps well whereas with ZR1 its a very stiff ride. The amount of mechanical grip is much higher in ZR1. In the Porsche, a lot of the handling is coming from the RWS in most fun driving/backroad conditions and this is obvious. Car literally steers better but take out that RWS and Porsche would drop a group or two, RWS is revolutionary. But even with RWS, the sheer lateral g you experience in the ZR1 is higher than GT3RS.
- Steering response : ZR1 steering isnt as good but this is mostly due to extremely heavy wheels/tires that come with the car. ZR1 comes with the heaviest oem wheel I have seen on a car (33 lbs rears and 27 lbs fronts) couple this with run flat tires, you get some very heavy steering that doesnt ride well. I have been able to drop over 45 lbs of unsprung mass by spending about $5000 for new set of tires and wheels. The difference is night and day. Not only steering became much more nimble, car now handles better and if you can believe it, it accelerates substantially better. 45 lbs of unsprung mass is a lot and you feel it.
- Further improvements : Akrapovic titanium system drops another 50 lbs. It also removes secondary catalytic converters and you can definitely feel more top end power. Add an MGW shifter for better shifter feel.
Total mods spent : $10k.
My car now weighs 3470 lbs with full tank of gas when everything else is in the car (carpets, manuals, etc). On 93 pump gas, with the Akra exhaust car dynos well over 800 hp on crank and 750 ft/lbs. Comparing GT3RS to ZR1, ZR1's sheer power in each gear is equivalent of Porsche's 1.5 gears below. In other words, 4th gear in ZR1 feels more than 3rd in Porsche but less than 2nd in Porsche. Porsche sort of runs out of steam around 100 mph where ZR1 keeps going till 160.
Amount of calories burned while driving : Porsche is X and ZR1 is 5X. I actually kid you not on this, I measured via my apple watch, my heart rate is consistently in 120-130s in ZR1 while its in 80s in the Porsche. A lot more work, a lot more adrenaline rush (and yes it wants to kill you).
- Throttle response : ZR1 comes from the factory (similar to all other GM cars) with a fairly decent amount of throttle lag built in. This is done specifically to deal with EPA mpg ratings. If you ever drive on a highway with a 6.2 liter engine (and a 2.9 liter super charger on it), you will very quickly see your trip odometer go from 23 to 4 with as little as 5% more pedal input. To address this, the first 10% or so of the throttle response doesnt translate the same amount of throttle butterfly function. Its an inverse exponential. This is easily fixed and costs around $100 by getting something like Soler engineering throttle controller. Its a little device that you plug into your gas pedal sensor that reroutes the gas pedal signal before that lag is removed. When you do remove it, there is a drastic and I mean very drastic change in the gas pedal feel. I went a little further also and added ported throttle body to my ZR1. Same thing goes for the throttle body where it is tuned for maximum fuel efficiency at idle. You trade off some mpg for initial off the line throttle sensitivity. These two upgrade cost me around $300-400 and it was the best money I spent. If a GT3/RS throttle response is 10/10, ZR1 before the updates were 5/10. After the updates it is an easy 8.5/10. It is still not same as GT3, but so close that it is hard to notice the difference. Heel and toe is much easier as a result of these updates.
- Suspension stiffness : ZR1 is a stiffer car than a .2 GT3RS. Full stop. I have put now 18,000 miles combined to both cars. GT3RS is much more refined and observes bumps/microbumps well whereas with ZR1 its a very stiff ride. The amount of mechanical grip is much higher in ZR1. In the Porsche, a lot of the handling is coming from the RWS in most fun driving/backroad conditions and this is obvious. Car literally steers better but take out that RWS and Porsche would drop a group or two, RWS is revolutionary. But even with RWS, the sheer lateral g you experience in the ZR1 is higher than GT3RS.
- Steering response : ZR1 steering isnt as good but this is mostly due to extremely heavy wheels/tires that come with the car. ZR1 comes with the heaviest oem wheel I have seen on a car (33 lbs rears and 27 lbs fronts) couple this with run flat tires, you get some very heavy steering that doesnt ride well. I have been able to drop over 45 lbs of unsprung mass by spending about $5000 for new set of tires and wheels. The difference is night and day. Not only steering became much more nimble, car now handles better and if you can believe it, it accelerates substantially better. 45 lbs of unsprung mass is a lot and you feel it.
- Further improvements : Akrapovic titanium system drops another 50 lbs. It also removes secondary catalytic converters and you can definitely feel more top end power. Add an MGW shifter for better shifter feel.
Total mods spent : $10k.
My car now weighs 3470 lbs with full tank of gas when everything else is in the car (carpets, manuals, etc). On 93 pump gas, with the Akra exhaust car dynos well over 800 hp on crank and 750 ft/lbs. Comparing GT3RS to ZR1, ZR1's sheer power in each gear is equivalent of Porsche's 1.5 gears below. In other words, 4th gear in ZR1 feels more than 3rd in Porsche but less than 2nd in Porsche. Porsche sort of runs out of steam around 100 mph where ZR1 keeps going till 160.
Amount of calories burned while driving : Porsche is X and ZR1 is 5X. I actually kid you not on this, I measured via my apple watch, my heart rate is consistently in 120-130s in ZR1 while its in 80s in the Porsche. A lot more work, a lot more adrenaline rush (and yes it wants to kill you).
Last edited by 3-Pedals; 05-21-2021 at 10:39 AM.
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