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I've never understood this sentiment.
You guys have/will have kids ,right?
Will you not teach your kids the joy of driving a manual and pass on that passion?
I know I will for sure, few things I would look forward to more than that!
The number of people that are passionate about manuals decline each year, that doesn’t mean car enthusiasts are declining too though. People often conflate the two.
For as many passionate reasons I wish I had a 6mt GT3, there are more passionate reasons I’m happy I got the PDK
I've never understood this sentiment.
You guys have/will have kids ,right?
Will you not teach your kids the joy of driving a manual and pass on that passion?
I know I will for sure, few things I would look forward to more than that!
That guy clearly knows few Gen Z kids, if any. Many were and are being taught by their fathers how to drive manual and enjoy the engagement factor. Moreover, these kids will not be buying any GT cars anytime soon. They will have older cars with manuals. I was able to sell an older 6spd car within 24 hours because there were hardly any available in my area.
How many of you have made the decision to purchase a manual over PDK due to long term reliability / serviceability concerns?
Not me. I chose PDK-S on the 991.2 because IMO, that screaming motor demands a transmission to match, and that's the PDK-S.
The criteria for choosing a transmission on a GT car would NOT be reliability or serviceability, since the entire car is, by nature of it's extreme performance envelope, neither particularly reliable nor serviceable.
I didn’t have a choice with my .1 but i would probably go manual in my next toy, if available. Part of that is already putting 30,000 miles on my PDK so change is good. But i would prioritize what i wanted to drive over what i thought was more reliable or possibly worth more down the road.
For long term ownership, the simpler the better generally, which would make the manual a better option for me but its not available on the RS. the electronic systems are more of a concern to me if I were to keep the car out of warranty.
that's why I drove a 356 now. very simple and older than I.
I love manual and I hear many love manual....
but at least those I know who tells me loving manual really don't...
they can't heel and toe to save their lives
money shifts.
shift too often. you really just need 2-3-4.
auto blip they thought was fun... ah.. U BLIP is fun, AUTO BLIP not fun
The World is heading into a direction where humans are seen as a liability. The fight is real to completely remove us from the equation. We're probably heading towards a controlled environment where everyone needs to follow a certain pattern and computers " assist " us in everything of our day to day lives. It does sound like SF right now but luckily,I won't be around to see it...
Going back to cars and back to the subject : these cars are already complicated and very much computer controlled. So in terms of reliability,there are many other things that could go wrong besides the transmission...
I choose manual not because of reliability,but because I don't want to give away one more input of the car's control to computers. And never forget : this is a sports car that people buy not because they need it,but because they want it...
I have to say the more I look into this, the more frightening PDK becomes as a potential long-term play.
First off, this is the best PDK parts diagram I could find:
Basically, we are looking at a mysterious black box here. In 10 or 15 years, what will your options be to get one fixed?
On another board (not sure if we are allowed to link), I found the following very troubling post dated 5-21-19:
“Dealer Service Department original quote to replace failed transmission was just over $14,000.00. That's when I went shopping for a repair shop, but couldn't find a single shop who said they could work a PDK. There were a few guys who said they knew tiptronics, but PDKs were a mystery to everyone. I tried local, then tried shops in other areas, but no dice. (There was one guy who said he could fix ANYTHING, but he then said it would be his first look at a PDK so I didn't feel good shipping the car to him in California.) Indie shops here in AZ told me they could install a replacement if I could find one. I started calling dismantlers - PDKs were 10 years old by then, so thought there would some available from wrecked cars. I couldn't find a single one. Finally went back to the dealer and let them know it is my 3rd Porsche, one of two in the family now, they are doing the maintenance for us, long time PCA member, DE instructor, everything we could think of. I'm not sure what the deciding factors were, but the dealer stepped up big time. The service bill mentions "warranty good will", and "core return"; unfortunately it also says, "I agree that the terms of this offer are legally confidential" between PCNA, the dealership, and me, so I'm not able to give more details or numbers. The agreement saved me enough that I am well satisfied to be going back to Penske Porsche of North Scottsdale for all maintenance that I can't do myself, even though both of our cars are now off warranty.”
For me it was part of the equation. The PDK is awesome but way too complicated. I intend to keep this car for 15 years so the reliability is an issue. Porsche gear boxes if not abused are good for 200k easily, hopefully this new box will be the same way. Love it so far.
There are many other choices - Ferrari being one of my favorite.. But only Porsche offers a manual with the caliber of performance I am after. Therefore the choice of my GT3 being a manual was an easy one, especially with the Touring option.
I think for long term value in terms of collectability, then the MT wins hands down. The world is going the way of dual or multi clutch automatics. In the near future a MT car will be as common as a car with manually operated driver and passenger side windows.
But I think for long term value in terms of resale, and in particular ease of resale, the PDK wins hands down. Generation Z, for those that actually care and can drive, most if not all will have no idea how to operate a clutch pedal, or even want to.
In other words, sort of pointless to base a purchasing decision of the type of transmission as a basis for long term value.
Originally Posted by carbondan
I've never understood this sentiment.
You guys have/will have kids ,right?
Will you not teach your kids the joy of driving a manual and pass on that passion?
I know I will for sure, few things I would look forward to more than that!
Originally Posted by WenigerAberBeser
The number of people that are passionate about manuals decline each year, that doesn’t mean car enthusiasts are declining too though. People often conflate the two.
For as many passionate reasons I wish I had a 6mt GT3, there are more passionate reasons I’m happy I got the PDK
Car manufacturers, or at least the ones that want to be relevant and profitable, do not make cars for "enthusiasts".
Marketing to "enthusiasts" leads a manufacturer down the path of irrelevance and/or extinction. See Lotus.
No doubt there will always be enthusiasts, and enthusiasts who not only know how to operate an honest to goodness manual, but enjoy doing so. But to believe that just because those individuals exist, doesn't mean that manufacturers will make cars to satiate their demands.
Buy what you like. I know that isn't the question you asked but either can have issues. You may need a new PDK after a couple hundred miles, that happened to someone I know, you may never need one. With a manual, expect to need a clutch somewhere between 50-100k miles. You could easily get more than 100k out of one I am sure but I would just budget for that. I think a remanufactured PDK is somewhere in the $8k range. A clutch is going to be $3k I am guessing. Either way it is going to be expensive. I had the dual clutch on my S4 go, replacement was $11k luckily under a Fidelity Warranty. On my 997 GT3, I had no choice but to go manual and I am glad I did, I enjoy the drive more. But I am more reluctant to hand the keys to just anyone knowing that a money shift in a tight gearbox is not a difficult thing to do.
The biggest issue I see with PDK long term is that they keep improving it. Faster shift speeds, more gears, better programming. It becomes outdated eventually and harder to fix with the latest and greatest is out there. Manuals are manuals and stay the same.
Last edited by TrackJunke; 08-10-2019 at 09:13 PM.
The World is heading into a direction where humans are seen as a liability. The fight is real to completely remove us from the equation. We're probably heading towards a controlled environment where everyone needs to follow a certain pattern and computers " assist " us in everything of our day to day lives. It does sound like SF right now but luckily,I won't be around to see it...
Going back to cars and back to the subject : these cars are already complicated and very much computer controlled. So in terms of reliability,there are many other things that could go wrong besides the transmission...
I choose manual not because of reliability,but because I don't want to give away one more input of the car's control to computers. And never forget : this is a sports car that people buy not because they need it,but because they want it...
I hear you and can relate, but this is a bit of overstatement as by putting PDK in manual mode will just achieve that (by a different way and less 'involving" admittedly) without the "money shift" risk & I'll be more comfortable to let wife/buddy drive my car as well
08-09-2019, 04:38 PM
