Disappointed with the new Dunlops, after all
08-01-2019, 10:14 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by RobertR1
For most of the people here doing track days, not racing, Cup 2's all the way. Track day mentality. Get the 1-2 hot laps while you can before hitting traffic. That's if you're lucky.
My favorite thing going from Cup 1's to Cup 2's was how quick they came upto temp. After the 1st session of the day, I could go full speed at T-Hill by T6 and Sears by the esses. Then you can get your temps right and get your 2 laps in before you're driving around on 680 traffic.
If you want to more laps on Cup 2's like on private day or just get lucky, 2 hot laps followed by 1 cool down lap. If you try to do 4+ at a quick pace, they'll overheat and wear faster also.You'll see an initial pressure spike on the cool down lap but they'll come under control quickly and your'e good to go. However, even with that, they will gradually keep building up and holding temp until you need to come in.
No one racing is doing running cup 2's so they are exactly what they're meant to be. Hot lap champions. Use them as such.
From personal experience, I tried to do back to back full to empty run on Cup 2 at Thill on one of mooty's days back then. I drove through their protest and it absolutely killed their pace. Degraded from pretty calm 55's to very edgy 2:00 during that time.
My favorite thing going from Cup 1's to Cup 2's was how quick they came upto temp. After the 1st session of the day, I could go full speed at T-Hill by T6 and Sears by the esses. Then you can get your temps right and get your 2 laps in before you're driving around on 680 traffic.
If you want to more laps on Cup 2's like on private day or just get lucky, 2 hot laps followed by 1 cool down lap. If you try to do 4+ at a quick pace, they'll overheat and wear faster also.You'll see an initial pressure spike on the cool down lap but they'll come under control quickly and your'e good to go. However, even with that, they will gradually keep building up and holding temp until you need to come in.
No one racing is doing running cup 2's so they are exactly what they're meant to be. Hot lap champions. Use them as such.
From personal experience, I tried to do back to back full to empty run on Cup 2 at Thill on one of mooty's days back then. I drove through their protest and it absolutely killed their pace. Degraded from pretty calm 55's to very edgy 2:00 during that time.
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daveo4porsche (08-01-2019)
08-01-2019, 10:21 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Max, and everyone else posting, thanks good stuff!
What Max writes is exactly what I would expect;
Max, what was the ambient and surface temp (sunny?).
Dunlop is slow for a couple of laps but then they hang on much better the MPSC when they get fully hot.
They need more pressure so 31-33F 33-35R
Typically we’re always fighting hot temps in Florida, so I rather give up two laps and have a tire that works for a session instead of the MPSC; you can have a fast lap on lap two or three but then they go away and go way high on PSI. So I start way to low, and have to just hit the minimum PSI on lap 2 or 3. After that it’s gone even when you manage to get a low PSI for the rest of the session.
So to start on 26PSI on Dunlops is a luxury because they are OK hot and at 36PSI in the rear.
All .2 GT3RS need only -1.5 Camber front, fronts last forever on an RS, opposite of a GT3.
The rear is fine with -1.5, you can try to add a little -2 is what I will try at some point, but that’s only to try and make them last longer. The only solution is flip side to side.
They do last a little longer the MPSC
The Dunlops don’t give you that precise crisp feel like cold MPSC do.
Almost like they permanently grain and feel mushy, but when you push on, you realize it’s just giving you very early warning and they actually hang on better when hot compared to MPSC.
All this squares with what others have experienced and my limited experience with just 1 set on 3 different tracks.
For street driving, I think they are even a little better then the MPSC, that really surprised me.
What Max writes is exactly what I would expect;
Max, what was the ambient and surface temp (sunny?).
Dunlop is slow for a couple of laps but then they hang on much better the MPSC when they get fully hot.
They need more pressure so 31-33F 33-35R
Typically we’re always fighting hot temps in Florida, so I rather give up two laps and have a tire that works for a session instead of the MPSC; you can have a fast lap on lap two or three but then they go away and go way high on PSI. So I start way to low, and have to just hit the minimum PSI on lap 2 or 3. After that it’s gone even when you manage to get a low PSI for the rest of the session.
So to start on 26PSI on Dunlops is a luxury because they are OK hot and at 36PSI in the rear.
All .2 GT3RS need only -1.5 Camber front, fronts last forever on an RS, opposite of a GT3.
The rear is fine with -1.5, you can try to add a little -2 is what I will try at some point, but that’s only to try and make them last longer. The only solution is flip side to side.
They do last a little longer the MPSC
The Dunlops don’t give you that precise crisp feel like cold MPSC do.
Almost like they permanently grain and feel mushy, but when you push on, you realize it’s just giving you very early warning and they actually hang on better when hot compared to MPSC.
All this squares with what others have experienced and my limited experience with just 1 set on 3 different tracks.
For street driving, I think they are even a little better then the MPSC, that really surprised me.
08-01-2019, 12:05 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
It's really interesting to hear all of the mixed reviews. I prefer the Dunlop for the following:
1. The Dunlop communicates better, both audibly through tire chirping as you approach the limit and through your body.
2. The Dunlop continues to deliver performance throughout the session/day.
It's key to spend 2 laps to gradually bring the Dunlop to temperature. Don't overdrive it.
1. The Dunlop communicates better, both audibly through tire chirping as you approach the limit and through your body.
2. The Dunlop continues to deliver performance throughout the session/day.
It's key to spend 2 laps to gradually bring the Dunlop to temperature. Don't overdrive it.
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08-01-2019, 01:55 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
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gt3.997 (08-02-2019)
08-01-2019, 03:44 PM
#21
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Frankly, I do not care as much about how Dunlops feel or other nuance - I'll adjust to that after another set or two. My problem is that I got a set of tires that almost corded 2.5 light track days, despite running -2.4 camber and 35-36psi hot on the rear axle. Is there anything I can do to get 4 days out of them, besides driving slower and sliding less?
I'm ok flipping side to side, but I do not think that will give me another day and a half. Maybe half a day. More camber? Even higher pressure?
Surprisingly, fronts show very little shoulder wear with -2.5 camber and 32 psi hot pressure. So it looks like rears are just not designed for the load they are carrying in a 911.
I'm ok flipping side to side, but I do not think that will give me another day and a half. Maybe half a day. More camber? Even higher pressure?
Surprisingly, fronts show very little shoulder wear with -2.5 camber and 32 psi hot pressure. So it looks like rears are just not designed for the load they are carrying in a 911.
08-01-2019, 03:54 PM
#23
Drifting
I have never run them, only Cup 2. I was intrigued and was going to purchase some to try out. However a friend of mine who I instruct with ran a set on his GT2 and absolutely despised them, said he couldn’t get comfortable on them and was running noticeably slower lap times. So I passed. However, all the input here has me rethinking. On a side note, I have been getting much better wear from the N2 version Cup 2s, so hate to change. Decisions
08-01-2019, 03:59 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
+1 @disden I don't know what to do - I'm up for a new set of tires - waffling between the Dunlops and the PS2 cups w/blutooth connect hardware.
08-01-2019, 06:07 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
Frankly, I do not care as much about how Dunlops feel or other nuance - I'll adjust to that after another set or two. My problem is that I got a set of tires that almost corded 2.5 light track days, despite running -2.4 camber and 35-36psi hot on the rear axle. Is there anything I can do to get 4 days out of them, besides driving slower and sliding less?
I'm ok flipping side to side, but I do not think that will give me another day and a half. Maybe half a day. More camber? Even higher pressure?
Surprisingly, fronts show very little shoulder wear with -2.5 camber and 32 psi hot pressure. So it looks like rears are just not designed for the load they are carrying in a 911.
I'm ok flipping side to side, but I do not think that will give me another day and a half. Maybe half a day. More camber? Even higher pressure?
Surprisingly, fronts show very little shoulder wear with -2.5 camber and 32 psi hot pressure. So it looks like rears are just not designed for the load they are carrying in a 911.
08-01-2019, 06:14 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Frankly, I do not care as much about how Dunlops feel or other nuance - I'll adjust to that after another set or two. My problem is that I got a set of tires that almost corded 2.5 light track days, despite running -2.4 camber and 35-36psi hot on the rear axle. Is there anything I can do to get 4 days out of them, besides driving slower and sliding less?
I'm ok flipping side to side, but I do not think that will give me another day and a half. Maybe half a day. More camber? Even higher pressure?
Surprisingly, fronts show very little shoulder wear with -2.5 camber and 32 psi hot pressure. So it looks like rears are just not designed for the load they are carrying in a 911.
I'm ok flipping side to side, but I do not think that will give me another day and a half. Maybe half a day. More camber? Even higher pressure?
Surprisingly, fronts show very little shoulder wear with -2.5 camber and 32 psi hot pressure. So it looks like rears are just not designed for the load they are carrying in a 911.
I was hoping to get to 4 days on the rears with new tires and new car, ugh.
08-01-2019, 10:55 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
08-02-2019, 03:30 AM
#29
Is RWS basically doing heavy toe scrub in the way it works?
08-02-2019, 05:44 AM
#30
Some good points here.
I tried the Dunlops because the car was delivered on them.
I ran them at 29/33 (2.0/2.3 bar) hot just like Cup2s and did not find the pressures to be too low.
When cold they do have a soft sidewall/brush-instead-of-thread feel but when warmed up are just as sticky if not marginally better than Cup2s
They held up really well - I managed a 2:36 at Spa on a set which had 2 days of scorching Hungaroring and 2 days of warm Spa in them, so the point about holding pace throughout their lifespan seems valid.
After two hard laps they get warm and spike in pressure but keep more grip than overheated Cup2s.
When the hot pressures get to 32/36 (2.2/2.5 bar) they are still driveable unlike the Cup2s, which turn to gripless jelly at this level.
Overall really happy with them but then this happened:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/1150240-delaminated-dunlops-sport-maxx-race-2-a.html
and I installed N2 Cup2s, which I ran this past weekend.
If you push, it's a two lap tire.
If you push for two laps the rest of the session is lost in terms of pace and driving pleasure.
Cup2 behaviour is manegable in open track conditions but when running time restricted sessions they don't let you use the limited time available in full.
I might be going back to Dunlops after all.
I tried the Dunlops because the car was delivered on them.
I ran them at 29/33 (2.0/2.3 bar) hot just like Cup2s and did not find the pressures to be too low.
When cold they do have a soft sidewall/brush-instead-of-thread feel but when warmed up are just as sticky if not marginally better than Cup2s
They held up really well - I managed a 2:36 at Spa on a set which had 2 days of scorching Hungaroring and 2 days of warm Spa in them, so the point about holding pace throughout their lifespan seems valid.
After two hard laps they get warm and spike in pressure but keep more grip than overheated Cup2s.
When the hot pressures get to 32/36 (2.2/2.5 bar) they are still driveable unlike the Cup2s, which turn to gripless jelly at this level.
Overall really happy with them but then this happened:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/1150240-delaminated-dunlops-sport-maxx-race-2-a.html
and I installed N2 Cup2s, which I ran this past weekend.
If you push, it's a two lap tire.
If you push for two laps the rest of the session is lost in terms of pace and driving pleasure.
Cup2 behaviour is manegable in open track conditions but when running time restricted sessions they don't let you use the limited time available in full.
I might be going back to Dunlops after all.