For mostly track use: 991.2-3rs vs 718/981 gt4CS
07-30-2019 | 06:50 PM
#31
Race Car
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,530
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From: New York
Lots of options for easy storage of a race car around NYC. Spencer *** at Speedsport has mine and when I show up to the track it is sitting in the pits ready to go. They do plenty of trips around the country so you can go to a lot of tracks and just show up and drive. MMC will also rent you a car or store one and maintain it for you.
Driving in and out of the city sucks as you know. CCG can be a good option if you pick the street car path, but the safety consideration for me was huge and number one. I took up track driving because my wife wanted me to have a safer hobby while my son is young.
Driving in and out of the city sucks as you know. CCG can be a good option if you pick the street car path, but the safety consideration for me was huge and number one. I took up track driving because my wife wanted me to have a safer hobby while my son is young.
07-30-2019 | 07:15 PM
#33
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,967
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From: Vancouver, BC
Oh, one last piece of advice.
STAY AWAY from the base model 981 GT4CS that have the stock shocks. Don't even walk near it.
The original stock shocks are underivable, the car WILL try to kill you. The MR cars with the adjustable KWs are the ones to get. 2nd choice will be the base car with upgraded shocks.
07-30-2019 | 07:20 PM
#34
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,665
Likes: 275
From: Louisville, KY
Outside of some small ECU bugs, where the factory ECU/dash shows faults, but the Bosch unit shows everything is fine.....there isn't much to fault. Seems like some shops that support these race cars are telling owners to pretty much ignore some of the dash fault codes regarding coolant levels and temps, and just pay attention to the Bosch unit. It bothers some, others it doesn't. Comes with the territory when you are blending factory and race hardware and wiring.
Well driven .2 GT3/RS will usually outrun one on same tires by just a little, but like others said, it's got other advantages. Having both is the goal IMO.
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vincent.bondi940 (07-17-2020)
07-31-2019 | 09:46 PM
#37
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Joined: Jan 2013
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From: West Vancouver and San Francisco
What would be the best racing series for GT4CS for 5-7 racing weekends per season, ideally to the west and with a decently competitive field? I really like GT4CS but if I'm getting into the whole trailer and crew deal, why not go racing (I know why - but you only live once).
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Yargk (08-01-2019)
08-01-2019 | 06:59 AM
#38
Race Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,483
Likes: 1,087
From: Nashville
Purpose built race car over modified street car every day. Safety should be everyone's top priority on the race track and ground up race car normally will be safer.
If you are willing to trailer (or have someone do that for you) it opens up many other options than Porsche. I'd start with your intended use of the car and then see which car fits that best.
Want to do tons of actual racing? - Miata or Spec E30
Want to do some racing and a lot of DE? - Radical SR3, Wolf
Like high HP and closed cockpit on a budget? - Clubsport
Unlimited budget and want it all? - Radical RXC/RXC Coupe, Ligier, etc
I can tell you from experience that apples to apples the Radical SR3 has equal or lower running costs to a GT3/RS assuming the same track usage. Trackcar is right that if (when) you decide to race the costs go up a good bit - entry fees, transportation, trackside support, coaching, travel costs, lots of tires, etc. But racing is super fun (I digress).
Once you DE a purpose built race car, esp. a downforce car like the Radical, you'll never want to go back. The Radical SR3 has some big pluses ("low" cost of the car, consumables are cheap compared to Porsche, highly reliable, etc.) but it has a big downside - low HP. In the hands of a decent (not great) driver the SR3 is going to put down faster lap times than GT cars on most/all tracks. The Radical has a bigger advantage on more technical tracks and less so on high speed tracks. The problem is the SR3 is faster in the corners and slower on the straights. This creates issues passing in some DE environments. You catch the high HP cars in the corners but then they don't lift or get impatient on the straight letting you pass. Usually this is less of a problem in the "red" group as the drivers are more familiar with low-HP downforce cars and they know that once the next corner comes they'll never see you again.
FWIW - I think the SR3 is a terrific DE car that allows you to do some racing if you want. But I was close to going with the Clubsport too so I get that as well.
If you are willing to trailer (or have someone do that for you) it opens up many other options than Porsche. I'd start with your intended use of the car and then see which car fits that best.
Want to do tons of actual racing? - Miata or Spec E30
Want to do some racing and a lot of DE? - Radical SR3, Wolf
Like high HP and closed cockpit on a budget? - Clubsport
Unlimited budget and want it all? - Radical RXC/RXC Coupe, Ligier, etc
I can tell you from experience that apples to apples the Radical SR3 has equal or lower running costs to a GT3/RS assuming the same track usage. Trackcar is right that if (when) you decide to race the costs go up a good bit - entry fees, transportation, trackside support, coaching, travel costs, lots of tires, etc. But racing is super fun (I digress).
Once you DE a purpose built race car, esp. a downforce car like the Radical, you'll never want to go back. The Radical SR3 has some big pluses ("low" cost of the car, consumables are cheap compared to Porsche, highly reliable, etc.) but it has a big downside - low HP. In the hands of a decent (not great) driver the SR3 is going to put down faster lap times than GT cars on most/all tracks. The Radical has a bigger advantage on more technical tracks and less so on high speed tracks. The problem is the SR3 is faster in the corners and slower on the straights. This creates issues passing in some DE environments. You catch the high HP cars in the corners but then they don't lift or get impatient on the straight letting you pass. Usually this is less of a problem in the "red" group as the drivers are more familiar with low-HP downforce cars and they know that once the next corner comes they'll never see you again.
FWIW - I think the SR3 is a terrific DE car that allows you to do some racing if you want. But I was close to going with the Clubsport too so I get that as well.
08-01-2019 | 06:22 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29,452
Likes: 1,703
From: S. Florida
Oh, one last piece of advice.
STAY AWAY from the base model 981 GT4CS that have the stock shocks. Don't even walk near it.
The original stock shocks are underivable, the car WILL try to kill you. The MR cars with the adjustable KWs are the ones to get. 2nd choice will be the base car with upgraded shocks.
STAY AWAY from the base model 981 GT4CS that have the stock shocks. Don't even walk near it.
The original stock shocks are underivable, the car WILL try to kill you. The MR cars with the adjustable KWs are the ones to get. 2nd choice will be the base car with upgraded shocks.
08-01-2019 | 10:09 PM
#41
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 13,690
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From: Wishing I Was At The Track
08-01-2019 | 11:33 PM
#42
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 387
From: Driver's Seat
For serious tracking, go with a purpose-built racecar. The RS is a lot of fun, but like you already know, unless you spend $$$$ to gut the thing you'd always be thinking of "what if I lost this weight here" or "put on a cup bit there". In the end you have a frankencar that makes sense only to you, and costs megabucks to restore down the road.
A GT4CS properly driven is as fast as a 997 Cup and not any less fun. Maintenance costs peanuts compared to a used cup. Been down that road myself: running cost-per-hour are in different orders of magnitude when you amortize whole-lifecycle cost incl. rebuild and chassis depreciation.
And unless you have specific training goals in mind, the GT4 is a very sensible platform to throw around and enjoy. You'd thank me when you get to push without worrying about megabucks consequences.
It's just more fun hustling a slower car at the limit, than to run a fast car below its potential.
A GT4CS properly driven is as fast as a 997 Cup and not any less fun. Maintenance costs peanuts compared to a used cup. Been down that road myself: running cost-per-hour are in different orders of magnitude when you amortize whole-lifecycle cost incl. rebuild and chassis depreciation.
And unless you have specific training goals in mind, the GT4 is a very sensible platform to throw around and enjoy. You'd thank me when you get to push without worrying about megabucks consequences.
It's just more fun hustling a slower car at the limit, than to run a fast car below its potential.
08-02-2019 | 11:41 AM
#43
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,610
Likes: 673
Originally Posted by NateOZ
Lots of options for easy storage of a race car around NYC. Spencer *** at Speedsport has mine and when I show up to the track it is sitting in the pits ready to go. They do plenty of trips around the country so you can go to a lot of tracks and just show up and drive. MMC will also rent you a car or store one and maintain it for you.
Driving in and out of the city sucks as you know. CCG can be a good option if you pick the street car path, but the safety consideration for me was huge and number one. I took up track driving because my wife wanted me to have a safer hobby while my son is young.
Driving in and out of the city sucks as you know. CCG can be a good option if you pick the street car path, but the safety consideration for me was huge and number one. I took up track driving because my wife wanted me to have a safer hobby while my son is young.
08-02-2019 | 07:03 PM
#45
Race Director
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 10,234
Likes: 1,977
From: Hypercar Invitational
Driving a stripped out gt4CS on slicks, even though its got a relatively gutless engine, is more fun to me than even a gt3rs. you can really attack corners while keeping up the speed, the lateral grip from slicks is much more engaging than the feeling of accelerating hard because of a powerful gt3- engine.
Considering you're in NYC, You have Monticello Raceway relatively close by where you can leave your car, great club feel with lots of cool events and members, it's a track with lots of turns and no real needs for a powerful car... If I were you the GT4CS is the answer. If you can swing the cost, the 718 gt4CS version feels significantly more powerful especially on the top end.. Tried it at Road Atlanta which is definitely a power track and I did not want to get out of that car. You can keep running up on gt3's on road tires and you realize just how much reducing weight and adding slicks adds to the driving experience. Totally different lines from road cars, attacking & hopping curbs, it's a completely different experience.
When you consider The fact that you can drive a dedicated car like the CS so much harder as minor off-track/damage can be replaced with less heart-ache than if you even so much as scratch a nice shiny road car.. to me the decision is easy. I'm surprised at Trakcar's analysis but his is probably the most knowledgeable assessment.. so I defer.
Considering you're in NYC, You have Monticello Raceway relatively close by where you can leave your car, great club feel with lots of cool events and members, it's a track with lots of turns and no real needs for a powerful car... If I were you the GT4CS is the answer. If you can swing the cost, the 718 gt4CS version feels significantly more powerful especially on the top end.. Tried it at Road Atlanta which is definitely a power track and I did not want to get out of that car. You can keep running up on gt3's on road tires and you realize just how much reducing weight and adding slicks adds to the driving experience. Totally different lines from road cars, attacking & hopping curbs, it's a completely different experience.
When you consider The fact that you can drive a dedicated car like the CS so much harder as minor off-track/damage can be replaced with less heart-ache than if you even so much as scratch a nice shiny road car.. to me the decision is easy. I'm surprised at Trakcar's analysis but his is probably the most knowledgeable assessment.. so I defer.