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dynoed my stock manual gt3 few days ago.... results : 508 hp - 470 nm @flywheel.... now i'm going to dyno the car with dundon motorsport street headers plus bmc air filters....
dynoed my stock manual gt3 few days ago.... results : 508 hp - 470 nm @flywheel.... now i'm going to dyno the car with dundon motorsport street headers plus bmc air filters....
There's no way you know how much hp your car has at the flywheel. Your dyno can't tell you that unless you ripped the engine out of the car and put the engine on a dyno, directly. Dynos are useful for showing you deltas. That's it. So once you put headers on your car and re-dyno, you'll see a good representation of what changed. But it's by no means an absolute power representation.
There's no way you know how much hp your car has at the flywheel. Your dyno can't tell you that unless you ripped the engine out of the car and put the engine on a dyno, directly. Dynos are useful for showing you deltas. That's it. So once you put headers on your car and re-dyno, you'll see a good representation of what changed. But it's by no means an absolute power representation.
I suspect he's taking the at the wheel number and applying a multiplier to get to the flywheel number.
And I agree with you - the value of the dyno IMHO is to see what a car was at one point and then again at another. I use it to see how my Radical motor is holding up and when to start thinking rebuild.
Hi all. I can confirm the Orange manual was mine from 1,000 miles to 3,500 miles. I never did a back to back comparison with another .2 PDK so i cant speak to the feelings the OP experienced. I can say from personal experience the car felt plenty quick to me, certainly faster than my 991.1 RS and i felt the same torque and quickness as my 991.2 RS. I can also confirm that during my short ownership there was never ever once a money shift or mishap of any sort. I'm not the best driver, but missing gears or hitting the wrong gear is not something i have done since high school. FWIW
I suspect he's taking the at the wheel number and applying a multiplier to get to the flywheel number.
And I agree with you - the value of the dyno IMHO is to see what a car was at one point and then again at another. I use it to see how my Radical motor is holding up and when to start thinking rebuild.
In eu the dyno shows the engine power as default setting....
Hi all. I can confirm the Orange manual was mine from 1,000 miles to 3,500 miles. I never did a back to back comparison with another .2 PDK so i cant speak to the feelings the OP experienced. I can say from personal experience the car felt plenty quick to me, certainly faster than my 991.1 RS and i felt the same torque and quickness as my 991.2 RS. I can also confirm that during my short ownership there was never ever once a money shift or mishap of any sort. I'm not the best driver, but missing gears or hitting the wrong gear is not something i have done since high school. FWIW
By the way, not related to this thread but is not having the extended fuel tank a deal breaker? Found a pristine 2018 Manual just below MSRP but doesn't have the bigger fuel tank. How many miles does the stock one give around the suburbs with mixed driving of normal and spirited. Can the bigger tank be added later on if needed?
By the way, not related to this thread but is not having the extended fuel tank a deal breaker? Found a pristine 2018 Manual just below MSRP but doesn't have the bigger fuel tank. How many miles does the stock one give around the suburbs with mixed driving of normal and spirited. Can the bigger tank be added later on if needed?
Thanks.
Smaller tank would never be a deal breaker for me. Just got to fill up more frequently
Bringing back this thread. I own a 991.2 GT3RS. This has been my experience as well. I have been in the market for a manual GT3 (speedster, touring, or winged) for a while now. I have driven a number of GT3s this past year, particularly last 6 months. I had driven manual GT3s about a year and a half ago as well and had the same observations at the time. All in all, I have driven 4-5 winged GT3s, 2 tourings, 2 speedsters at different times at different places. They all had the same identical feel, in that for some reason I could absolutely tell lack of torque in them in all gears except 1st gear. It almost feels like the manual car is being choked by something.
This is most likely simply gear ratios plus the little bit of ECU tune of the RS. I am actually really surprised how different these cars feel. Manual isnt simply the same engine with a different transmission. It feels like a different car all together. Perhaps there is a bit of e-diff in the RS that puts the power down better? Not sure.
To be clear, I am simply talking about in gear acceleration. No downshift, no upshift. This is much more present at lower rpms. Manual car is a dog at 2000 rpm in 3rd gear, my RS doesnt feel like that at all.
I was also thinking maybe in the ECU tune there are other things that holds back the manual car to make sure synchros and clutch cooperate. I understand in a dyno manual car makes more power. But in real life, this was so not my experience. And I eliminated the bad gas, bad engine, bad injector, bad etc fact out completely. In my last drive, I thought this was due to the OPF in speedster because prior to that car it had been many months since I drove a GT3 manual. After the speedster, I drove another winged, another speedster, and a touring and they all had the same characteristic.
I wish Porsche made manual with RS ratios and no 7th gear.
Typical acceleration data between .2 manual and .2 RS.
Both cars stock, good maintenance intervals for plugs & ignition coils, similar mileage between the two. Flat upshifts utilized in the .2 manual.
(Reference mph on y axis.)
First & second chart: 2nd to 4th.
Third chart: 3rd to 5th.
Fourth chart: in gear acceleration closeup, 4th gear. (Black is manual, red is RS.)
Black and red traces are alternating RS & manual in these screenshots, sorry. Wherever you see the inconsistent line, that's the manual on an upshift.
RS sometimes feels punchier in certain conditions, low to mid revs.
Manual usuallyfeels like it pulls a little bit more up top.
Can make a case that both of those feels show in the data with some consistency.
Useful data. Remember, the torque difference “felt” between the two cars is usually near instantaneous. Not sure how velocity graphs will capture this. Its really seat of the pants feel. But I know I am not making things up. RS also has the larger diameter rear tire as well as different final ratio (which is different than pdk gt3 and even the 992 pdk gt3). I would love to meet someone who has a manual gt3 and do a “third party” test lol.
I dont think you’ll be able to tell these cars apart once they get going in in the rev range. Its that very initial pick up that is very different. I never complained about lack of torque down low in my RS but honestly the manual car would annoy me.
Hope no one gets offended. I am still trying to buy one to complement my RS. But I think its use cases would be much more limited to me (interestingly). Its too much work to get the same sensation out of it for my driving.
Useful data. Remember, the torque difference “felt” between the two cars is usually near instantaneous. Not sure how velocity graphs will capture this. Its really seat of the pants feel. But I know I am not making things up. RS also has the larger diameter rear tire as well as different final ratio (which is different than pdk gt3 and even the 992 pdk gt3). I would love to meet someone who has a manual gt3 and do a “third party” test lol.
I dont think you’ll be able to tell these cars apart once they get going in in the rev range. Its that very initial pick up that is very different. I never complained about lack of torque down low in my RS but honestly the manual car would annoy me.
Hope no one gets offended. I am still trying to buy one to complement my RS. But I think its use cases would be much more limited to me (interestingly). Its too much work to get the same sensation out of it for my driving.
If you're in a very specific range often enough, seat of the pants feel could make a difference to ownership/enjoyment.
Like I said, also sometimes sense slightly more initial punch w/ pdk low to mid revs. Usually perceive slightly more pull up top in the manual. The latter probably shows more strongly in the acceleration data, i.e., objective vs. seat of the pants.
No reason to be offended... both transmissions awesome, perfectly suited to the car, negligible actual performance difference. Choosing according to how they subjectively feel is the only reasonable method, actually.
I am quite sure that there is a difference between the differentials between the PDK & 6MT as well, PDK has an electronically controlled differential vs the purely mechanical differential in the 6MT
Not sure if this would make a difference to the feel of the car either driving normally or at the limit.
Useful data. Remember, the torque difference “felt” between the two cars is usually near instantaneous. Not sure how velocity graphs will capture this. Its really seat of the pants feel. But I know I am not making things up. RS also has the larger diameter rear tire as well as different final ratio (which is different than pdk gt3 and even the 992 pdk gt3). I would love to meet someone who has a manual gt3 and do a “third party” test lol.
I dont think you’ll be able to tell these cars apart once they get going in in the rev range. Its that very initial pick up that is very different. I never complained about lack of torque down low in my RS but honestly the manual car would annoy me.
Hope no one gets offended. I am still trying to buy one to complement my RS. But I think its use cases would be much more limited to me (interestingly). Its too much work to get the same sensation out of it for my driving.
I don’t think any manual car is going to match the initial punch of a PDK transmission, especially from a routine standing start. I think the GT3 shifts very cleanly, the gears transition very firmly and the clutch has good grab. There is a very immediate sense of torque. That said it’s not going to be mechanical perfection like a PDK. It can’t be.
The mental engagement in using a manual and the physicality/tactility of shifting a nicely designed manual transmission and sense of connection to the car make up for this, IMO, but everyone is different.
04-11-2019, 07:05 AM
