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I appreciate you addressing this on the forum... but next time please also bring us in on the loop. We are the manufacturer of the battery, and I have not heard from you. I represent our Company on this forum (along with Chad) and I will answer any question about our product honestly and openly. There is nothing to hide and the product works exactly as state. If it doesn't I will address it and fix it if someone brings up something we have not seen.
I will explain some things below regarding batteries and our RS-30.
1- First, lets keep in mind a few things. A battery is a device that stores energy. It has a relatively fixed voltage and does not PUSH energy into things or cause issues unless it is short-circuited. For example it is basically inert until it is DRAWN from by a device or system. So it will not push the energy into the device... the device will take energy from the battery... such as a Starter Motor. So while a battery might not be understood by all I want to make it clear that it isn't a device that burns up ECUs or Power-steering Pumps, or that type of thing by pushing energy or current into them... they take energy from the battery. The only way to really harm the electronics in the system is if you short circuit the battery or misconnect it.
2- Additionally I want to explain that our Lithium Battery sits at 13.2v in it normal resting state, a lead acid battery sits at 12.6v in its normal resting state.... that is a .6v difference.... which is insignificant and cannot create a "Damaging" effects on any part of the Cars system whatsoever (unless someone intentionally short circuits it). But additionally and more importantly is to understand that the CHARGING SYSTEM on the Vehicle it most often operating at 14.4 to 14.8v in any of our Porsches ( I have a GT3 RS myself). I have tracked that voltage in multiple tests over the last 6 months in my personal car and monitoring voltage sitting for weeks and while driving it. My point being, if a Cars Charging system is putting out 14.4v often (the standard within the Automotive Industry), then this proves that the 13.2v could not and would not damage any part of your system such as computers, lighting or anything because more often than not the car system is putting out above 14v... and if the car couldn't handle that, then this Voltage it would always be damaging system. Vehicle systems are designed to handle above 15v and not suffer damages... they have to design them that way to deal with potential voltage spikes. So a 13.2v battery will not damage a cars system whatsoever.
3- I'm going to be blunt about these Dealerships and your Tech. They may know about Porsches and repairing them but they do not understand how a battery actually operates and what it can effect in the car. The statement that the Lithium Battery could ruin your Power Steering due to low voltage is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD. Here's a few facts.... for example, say the cars charging system is not putting out it's normal 14.4v because your alternator has failed.... well the fact is that Lithium Battery will hold at 13.2v nice and steady, which is HIGHER than the Lead/Acids 12.6v. So how on earth could this Tech claim the Power Steering Pump failed due to Low Voltage? Because the RS-30 would have been holding a steady 13.2v even if your alternator failed and for a long period... again that is higher than the Lead/Acid battery. So how is it ever going to give too low of a voltage when the cars system is designed to work off a lower voltage Lead/Acid Battery? The fact of this is that you had an "aftermarket" part in your Car.... they saw that and point a finger at it saying "Aha, that is why your Car failed." only because it wasn't your stock battery and it was an aftermarket product used in your Porsche. They had absolutely no basis to jump to that conclusion from the battery.
4- You also state that they say 30Ah is too little for these Cars.... again this is absolutely inaccurate information. The facts are Amp Hours are the Capacity of the Battery, the Amp Hours, to put it in simple terms, indicate the amount of RESERVE energy a battery has. To say that 30Ah is not enough for our cars is not accurate at all. The cars will absolutely operate perfectly fine with even a 7Amp Hour battery, and in fact I have a 7Ah Antigravity 12-Cell battery in our 2005 Toyota Tacoma shop Truck.... for 2 years! Also I have tested the 7Ah in my personal GT3-RS for 6 weeks. Not a problem. BUT the truth is 7 Amps Hours is way to low because you can't leave the lights on or the Radio for long if the car isn't running. But so you completely understand the battery is for starting and then providing a stable voltage to the car, and giving you capacity for emergency lighting. It really just sits in the car being recharged most the time. It is not actively doing things. So to do that effectively you should use a Certain number of Amp Hours for any car depending on it level of Parasitic drain, and it use. In Sports Cars for the Street you could even get away with 15Ah and be fine, but it would require more monitoring so you don't over-discharge it, but its fine. Last, an important fact si that a higher Amp Hour is needed in Start Stop vehicles where the Alternator is now designed to operate less frequently, and the car goes to the battery more and the Alternator is not recharging as much. But the GT3s do NOT have Stop Start system... so that is not an issue. So my final point being 30 Amp hours is ABSOLUTELY sufficient for a Sport/Performance Car battery. The RS-30 provide a much more stable voltage during its capacity also being it stays at 13.2v until it is finally over-discharge at which point it drops very fast. But lead/acid drop voltage in a linear manner as it is used meaning it goes down from 12s to 11s to 10s and the voltage goes lower if it doesn't have recharge. So its much less efficient.
5- My last comment is that the RS-30 has sold over 1200 units, and no lie it is our best model battery to date in terms of not having any issues. It has been tremendously stable, it has incredible starting power, and is a perfect performance battery for its intended use in Performance Cars. We've had 4 peole with Porsches with flags that have contacted us and of those it turned out to be Turbo owners with the 24Hour Cameras and the flags went away after they got the dedicated Camera Batteries. There were over 50 people on the GT3 thread that did the group buy and we have not heard anything from those guys of negative reports or flags. I have a 2016 GT3 RS myself that has been the test bed for this and our other batteries so that I could verify the use in our P-Cars. I have done everything I could to test the battery including multiple long term car sitting in the garage voltage monitoring, multiple long term start attempts, multiple time when I left the battery in the car.. but then attached an extra headlight with alligator clamps directly to the battery to cause a massive drain on the battery until it shut down into sleep mode... then would test the RE-START feature on the battery over 100 times over the course of the 2 weeks I did that test. My point being that I have done everything with that battery, and also it was tested by at least 7 others all over the USA during our original testing before I got my GT3. So it not doing anything odd or weird.
I know how frustrating this can be to have a car have a problem, and I understand the battery is the first thing you would look at due to your issues happening right after you put the battery in. And then with the Dealer saying it was the battery you don't know what to believe. I get that. But if it was another type of issue I would look at it objectively... but a Power Steering pump being damaged by the Battery is a very odd conclusion by your Dealer. But they are just looking for something to blame and a new fangled Lithium battery is the perfect bad guy unfortunately. Last I think if that happened so soon in your car all these others including myself with my GT3 would be having the same problem.... and we are in a lot of GT3s....
L'ultima parola è per favore restituirla al distributore da cui l'hai acquistata e mi assicurerò che ti diano un rimborso completo. Non voglio che tu stia con un prodotto che non funziona per la tua applicazione, e voglio essere sicuro che non ti senti come se dovessi tenerlo. Ci leviamo in piedi dietro tutto ciò che facciamo, se non ha funzionato per voi, rinviarlo assolutamente. [/ QUOTE]
just a small clarification. I would like to point out that on 6 November I sent an email with no feedback
But my question is this: why did we replace two batteries in my 991.1 GT3 RS and the steering box failed. at the same time we replaced the battery to my friend 991.2 GT3 rs and the display always shows the low battery error? Have 2 failed batteries arrived? I hope it was a simple coincidence due to bad luck
just a small clarification. I would like to point out that on 6 November I sent an email with no feedback
But my question is this: why did we replace two batteries in my 991.1 GT3 RS and the steering box failed. at the same time we replaced the battery to my friend 991.2 GT3 rs and the display always shows the low battery error? Have 2 failed batteries arrived? I hope it was a simple coincidence due to bad luck
Hey Ilario,
Some issues I want to cover.
1- Hey Illario, I will make sure our UK Distributor refunds you without question. They will not refuse, or I will pull their program. But when I spoke to them they had said they offered you a refund already..... The fact is we will absolutely fully refund anybody who isn't happy with the RS-30 even up to 6 months after if they bought if from us. I have that much faith in it, and it has proven it works great. So I am sorry there are flags appearing in your particular car... but I am not sure of the reason yet being you haven't provided me any real information or data. .There are further items we need to look into such as 1) does the EU cars have a different spec? 2) Do you have any other aftermarket accessories on your cars? 3) You said you raced them so have you modified anything else on the car, or are they all stock? Also what is the sitting voltage of the battery while the Car reports it is low. The voltage on our lithium can RARELY go below 13.2v.... so have you checked that and saw what the voltage reading is ACTUALLY at the battery? So before jumping to conclusions let get some real data and a better understanding of when and where the issues occur. Or just return the batteries and I'll get the UK Distributor to refund you.
2- There is a large number of GT3 owners on this forum using th RS-30 battery in their GT3 and GT3 RS... I sold a group buy into the GT3 community a few months back so I can factually say that about 70 people purchased in the Group Buy with most having GT3s... and that forum is thread 25 pages long, yet I have not heard of the same flag you got in your car. I also do not know if your car is stock or has aftermarket electronics or anything that would cause any potential issues that could create the flag. I have not seen the issue before, nor has it been reported to me, or posted about in any of the forums. Goto this forum and read through it, if this was normal occurance with a battery replacement someone would have posted about it I assume..... https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...for-2-gt3.html
3- We did receive your email on November 6th, you sent it to our general email at info@ and my staff then forwarded it to me a few days later because they could not answer the question well enough since they are not the one with Porsche experiance. But if you notice my DIRECT email is all over RENNLIST in all my posts being it is in the Signature on any threads we post. That means you can easily contact me, the OWNER, directly. So I apologize for you waiting a few days for a response, but if it was sent to me directly I probably would have gotten an answer faster.
4- In answer to your question of "Why did we replace battery in my 991.1 GT3 RS and the steering box failed" .... I already answered that above in my post. I do not see how the battery could be claimed to be the result of your Power Steering failure. I've ran 4 different batteries in my GT3 RS from a very small 7 Amp hour battery (AG1201) for a month, to the RS-30 most the time , to the stock Lead Battery. I have not seen any of the issues you are claiming. And if the RS-30 was the cause of your Power-Steering failure then wouldn't I have many failures of Power Steering pumps failing right after installing our RS-30 Battery in all the Porches we have them in? I still don't even understand how the dealer could even jump to the conclusion that a Lithium Battery ruined your power steering pump. I am frustrated by this because it is RIDICULOUS, Porsche offers a lithium battery themselves... it rests at the same voltage as ours does, is it also the cause of Powersteering failures. But as I said above... the RS-30 sits at 13.2v which is HIGHER voltage than a lead acid battery... so how can it say the voltage is low. So when you see that flag of low voltage, why don't you get a Muli-Meter and test the voltage of the battery? I can all but guarantee it will be reading 13.2v, because that is what lithium sits at and that is NOT low.
5- In answer to your question about your friends car "... at the same time we replaced the battery to my friend 991.2 GT3 rs and the display always shows the low battery error? " Well, being blunt I don't know Illario. The RS-30 battery actually sits HIGHER in voltage than a Lead/ACid Battery. It sits at 13.2v... which you can check with a Multimeter. We have NOT seen the problem here, and last you have not said ANYTHING about the GT3s , are they Stock? Do you have Cameras or after market accessories on them? Do you have Bluetooth Chargers or something that could interfere with a voltage reading? The reason I say this is because the only time we seen flags is when some Cameras were attached to the Cars, and those were some Turbos not GT3s. So that aftermarket Camera was doing something to the system becuase when it was given a dedicated battery the flag stopped. My last point would be , did your car ALSO have the Low Voltage flag are you friends did? Or did your car have just a Powersteering failure about the time that you put the battery in? So then does you car not has something the other car does? Because if it was a battery issue then both should have the same issues correct? So the bottom line is we need DATA and good information to resolve or at least assist in finding a solution.
In conclusion Ilario I think its best you send back the battery to the UK Distributor to quickly resolve your issues and get you refunded. I don't want you to lack faith in the product because you will tend to believe the battery causes all your problems. IF I knew or had seen your particular issues I would better be able to help, but I have not seen them.
If you would like to continue to try to use them, then you would need to provide me accurate data on if you or your friend have any aftermarket electronics on the Cars, or have done any other modifications. I noted you said you were racing the cars, which the RS-30 would also be awesome for and is used in many Cars for this purpose, but you did not say if you have modified other parts of the electronics or have Cameras, Data systems, or anything else the could potentially lead to the mis-reading. Additionally please provide the multi-meter reading when you test the voltage on the battery.... It cannot be below 13.2 if you had it charged even a few weeks ago or more. My car will sit 7 weeks and still read at 13.2v. and the others I have talked to who have had the car sitting sometimes say its start up immediately after many weeks.
So I'm trying to resolve this but need some data. or just send them back. Your choice.... and contact me at scott@antigravitybatteries.com with your information about the cars and data. I am not always on RENNLIST so its best to reach out to me directly.
Your dealer's explanation sounds pretty ridiculous to me. If a voltage drop caused the steering ECU to burn, then every time batteries started dying or getting old we would have to worry about burning our steering rack. I have an Antigravity Lithium battery in my car and it worked flawlessly from the first crank. The voltage reading in the car is always consistent also.
Oh, and my understanding is that battery weight savings are less helpful in 911's, because they are already rear-weight biased. Since the battery is in the front, saving weight up there makes the car slightly MORE rear-weight biased..
This is why you get a side muffler bypass with exhaust for the rear
Sorry if I do not write well in English but I try to explain. my RS 991.1 and my friend's RS 991.2 we have well-equipped standard accessories no Aftermarket accessories. In my case, I immediately noticed a strange behavior: lowering the number of revolutions to a minimum, the water temperature always below the threshold was struggling to reach 90 ° C, after two days, problems with the electric steering servo. Carried out in a Porsche center the workshop head after having made a diagnosis told me that there was a sudden voltage drop "0 V" After we installed in the same Porsche center the new lithium battery on the GT3 RS .2 of my friend and the message "low battery" appeared on the display. Then it remained on charge for the entire web end. On Monday we noticed that the message did not disappear then we withdrew the car and went around to check if the error message disappeared but unfortunately remained. At this point the head of the Porsche workshop advised us to replace the original battery in order to avoid more serious problems. as a last point I wanted to tell you that Porsche for the Italian market and maybe even the European one to eliminate the lithium battery from the terquipment catalog, will it be because it has encountered problems? I hope I was clear to everyone
I'm not going to replace the original battery until it dies. However, some of these lightweight batteries are actually better performing and longer lasting than OEM (I suspect the Anti-Gravity is in this category).
While that may be true, at the end of the day, it’s just a battery; I feel like people mod this for the sake of modding. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Sorry if I do not write well in English but I try to explain. my RS 991.1 and my friend's RS 991.2 we have well-equipped standard accessories no Aftermarket accessories. In my case, I immediately noticed a strange behavior: lowering the number of revolutions to a minimum, the water temperature always below the threshold was struggling to reach 90 ° C, after two days, problems with the electric steering servo. Carried out in a Porsche center the workshop head after having made a diagnosis told me that there was a sudden voltage drop "0 V" After we installed in the same Porsche center the new lithium battery on the GT3 RS .2 of my friend and the message "low battery" appeared on the display. Then it remained on charge for the entire web end. On Monday we noticed that the message did not disappear then we withdrew the car and went around to check if the error message disappeared but unfortunately remained. At this point the head of the Porsche workshop advised us to replace the original battery in order to avoid more serious problems. as a last point I wanted to tell you that Porsche for the Italian market and maybe even the European one to eliminate the lithium battery from the terquipment catalog, will it be because it has encountered problems? I hope I was clear to everyone
Hi Ilario,
Thanks for your explanation. You say your Car is having low RPMs (revolutions), and water temperature struggling to reach 90 degrees. I honestly don't see how the Car Temperature or Revolutions would be affected by the battery. So please send you battery back to the UK Distributor. I will email you and him together in a few minutes, and tell the UK Distributor to process a refund to you as soon as he gets the RS-30 back. I will them have them send the battery back to me, and then I will also test it in my Car to see if there was any issues. Please write you name with permanent Marker on the lable of the battery so I know it yours when we get it back I will test it in my car and see if I get any of the same issues you have reported.
My last question would be.... was anyone touching the RE-START button after it was started? Meaning did anyone TURN OFF the battery after it was started? You know the battery will have a GREEN LIGHT when it is ON? I was thinking maybe the Porsche Tech at the Porsche Dealer was messing around and might have held the RE-START button down for a few seconds and accidentally turned off the battery while the car was running and therefore the battery would not be putting out any voltage.... Also did you re-set the PIWIS SYSTEM? ... Because you DO NOT have to do this with our RS-30 Battery... that is something Porsche recommends for the "Porsche Lithium" battery because they did not want the Alternator charging above 13. 8v to THEIR lithium battery. But our RS-30 can take a 14.8v charge without any problems so you DO NOT need to change the PIWIS. Anyway those are more questions that might assist in seeing why any flag came up.
I'm learning a lot from this thread. I just purchased the Antigravity Battery and looking forward to the install.
It only makes sense that if a battery is simply an energy storage bank and only delivers its energy when a component asks for its energy; the only way a component could fail would be if the storage bank was closed. How could the storage bank (battery) be closed? - It must have been turned off - or faulty. Antigravity will test the battery to determine if it was a faulty unit. It's easy to say "No I didn't turn the battery off". There's no way to prove this, but that makes a lot more sense than saying the battery caused the component failure.
As a side note-Bear in mind : ALL NEW BATTERIES INSTALLED IN THESE CARS NEED TO BE PROGRAMMED TO THE CAR!
Good luck!
Curious where you are getting this info - "All new batteries installed in these cars need to be programmed to the car". There are road side services all over the USA, AAA for instance, that have dedicated trucks for replacing batteries on the side of the road. - Ask me how I know. :-) The roadside mechanic just puts in a new battery. There is no programming. Also, as far as I know, there is no communication built in to batteries that would tell the car a new battery has been installed. It's not like in your computer where the CPU detects the installation of a new graphics card. The graphics card has identifiers and a way to communicate the the CPU its model name and specs. A modern day car battery does not have any technology like this as far as I know.
Curious where you are getting this info - "All new batteries installed in these cars need to be programmed to the car". There are road side services all over the USA, AAA for instance, that have dedicated trucks for replacing batteries on the side of the road. - Ask me how I know. :-) The roadside mechanic just puts in a new battery. There is no programming. Also, as far as I know, there is no communication built in to batteries that would tell the car a new battery has been installed. It's not like in your computer where the CPU detects the installation of a new graphics card. The graphics card has identifiers and a way to communicate the the CPU its model name and specs. A modern day car battery does not have any technology like this as far as I know.
Just because AAA installs batteries on the side of the road and the car seems fine,doesn't necessarily mean the charging system and electronics perform as designed. Also,bear in mind this information refers to late model high end European/German makes and the like,not your regular 2003/or similar Toyota Camry.
I'll quote directly from the service information :
After installing a new battery the service function " Register battery replacement " should be run. The battery replacement has to be registered in order to tell the power management system that a new battery has been installed in the vehicle. If the battery replacement has not been registered,the power management will not function properly,with the result that Check control messages may be displayed and functions limited by individual electrical consumers being switched off or having their power consumption reduced,for example.
Curious where you are getting this info - "All new batteries installed in these cars need to be programmed to the car". There are road side services all over the USA, AAA for instance, that have dedicated trucks for replacing batteries on the side of the road. - Ask me how I know. :-) The roadside mechanic just puts in a new battery. There is no programming. Also, as far as I know, there is no communication built in to batteries that would tell the car a new battery has been installed. It's not like in your computer where the CPU detects the installation of a new graphics card. The graphics card has identifiers and a way to communicate the the CPU its model name and specs. A modern day car battery does not have any technology like this as far as I know.
I figured I would add a little information to this.
This is true in regards to many of the later model cars over the last couple years. The manufacturers have made it so that even changing a battery requires not only a registration of the battery but also sometimes coding. For example BMWs been doing this for a while, and they require that you code the battery into the car and also register it with a number that is on the battery itself.
Most modern cars have alternators that are controlled by the cars computers and are directed to only start charging when the computers determine that the battery is discharged to a point that it actually needs to be charged again. It's a complex algorithm that is determined by the IBS, intelligent battery sensors that are most often located on the battery cable clamps that attach to the battery nowadays. It's those black boxes that are either on the negative or positive or sometimes both battery cable clamps. So those intelligent battery sensors monitor the current and the voltage going to and from the battery and then direct the alternator to start charging the battery, but usually much deeper into its discharge than in previous cars. So nowadays they wait much longer and allow the battery voltage to go much lower than in the past, and they also make the battery take on the initial brunt of powering the lighting, running stereos or A/C before the Alternator kicks in to assist. The reason for this is because modern cars are trying to get as much mileage and as low emissions as possible so not allowing the alternator to be charging the battery as often as in the past actually causes less drag on the Motor which therefore increases mileage and can assist with emissions.
So getting back to why you have to register these batteries is also because the car's charging system can actually change the charging curve/output of the alternator to best charge an AGM battery or a flooded battery because they use different charging curves. So the car manufacturers are making you do this registration so that the car knows what's charging curve to apply depending on which particular battery is in the car, which you set during the registration/coding. So this already exists for the Porsches and most cars over the last couple years and I believe it's getting more strict especially in the VW camp, because I see they are doing across all their Cars and requiring the battery number and such.
I personally think it's a bit of overkill and after reading some of what Ford put out it does not increase the longevity of the batteries at all, but it does make for better emissions and mileage and a few other benefits when using the stop start systems. I also think stop/start on sports cars is lame... But the manufacturers are just trying to meet the demands of the governments and it's getting very strict.
Now aside from a rage flags we have seen when installing a lithium battery, in my personal GT3RS I have never touched anything... meaning I just put the battery in and did not change the PIWIS or any settings whatsoever. I have never had a flag. I also assume many have done the same thing, while others have changed the PIWIS to Lithium in their Car. So in the 2018s I have no conclusive evidence that anything needs to be changed to put a lithium in it. But we are gathering data as we can... but so far most just put it in and go. But I'll keep this updated as we get more info.
Last edited by Antigravity; 11-28-2018 at 12:03 PM.
There you go! A much more detailed explanation than I was willing to give on this forum. I've been giving technical advice and info for years on this forum. Besides 2-3 members at most,nobody cares about technical info. Don't let the title of this sub forum(Technical discussion) confuse you,this is actually the " What's my car worth forum " , " ADM " ," Deviated stitching " and " PTS " forum.
11-11-2018, 04:12 PM
