Motor Trend Head 2 Head: AMG GTR vs GT3 PDK vs GT3 M
03-15-2018, 05:00 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Nothing here surprises me. Took my .2 Manual out for a drive yesterday. This engine is the best NA I have ever driven to date. Burning no oil and zero smoke on start-up. It is a freakin beast and w/the GRP Bypass it sounds sick. Started opening her up and ****-this car fast and you need to be careful because it will bite you if you do not pay attention.
And - do not buy all the BS that this engine was made for PDK. That is such a line of crap it makes me laugh when the .1 PDK guys say this. They had a Manual and PDK for the .1 but decided not to go with the Manual. This Manual in the .2 is a perfect match for this engine.
Will never sell this car. Going to drive it until I am old and can not physically drive any more
And - do not buy all the BS that this engine was made for PDK. That is such a line of crap it makes me laugh when the .1 PDK guys say this. They had a Manual and PDK for the .1 but decided not to go with the Manual. This Manual in the .2 is a perfect match for this engine.
Will never sell this car. Going to drive it until I am old and can not physically drive any more
03-15-2018, 05:19 PM
#62
Instructor
Randy Pobst on the manual: “Way more difficult to do a perfect lap with the manual transmission. I seem to end up halfway between gears a lot, and it was easier to destabilize the car in the brake zone. It’s tricky to do the brake and entry perfectly when there’s a downshift in there. It’s much trickier to throw a downshift at it than not to. It’s reminiscent of what we have to deal with, with manual transmissions, having to decide what gear you need, and it takes more practice to do it perfectly in one lap. I didn’t get into the magic zone like I did with the PDK, maybe because of the extra work.”
But he went on to say, "The shifter is great. It is very accurate, light. It has that slick, Teflon, mechanical feel. Never worried about getting the wrong gear. The only trouble was trying to be as perfect when I have to change gears.”
I haven't watched the video but that quote was from the Motor Trend review. I'm not at all dissing the manual. I have the manual and wouldn't change a thing. Given that lap times don't put food on my table, I look forward to the "extra work."
But he went on to say, "The shifter is great. It is very accurate, light. It has that slick, Teflon, mechanical feel. Never worried about getting the wrong gear. The only trouble was trying to be as perfect when I have to change gears.”
I haven't watched the video but that quote was from the Motor Trend review. I'm not at all dissing the manual. I have the manual and wouldn't change a thing. Given that lap times don't put food on my table, I look forward to the "extra work."
03-15-2018, 06:10 PM
#63
Race Director
As much as I love the Manual- no doubt it is easier to drive this car fast with PDK. For me not as enjoyable but easier. Also easier to grab a coffee at Starbucks and drive with PDK and not worry about spilling 
03-15-2018, 06:25 PM
#64
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Randy Pobst on the manual: “Way more difficult to do a perfect lap with the manual transmission. I seem to end up halfway between gears a lot, and it was easier to destabilize the car in the brake zone. It’s tricky to do the brake and entry perfectly when there’s a downshift in there. It’s much trickier to throw a downshift at it than not to. It’s reminiscent of what we have to deal with, with manual transmissions, having to decide what gear you need, and it takes more practice to do it perfectly in one lap. I didn’t get into the magic zone like I did with the PDK, maybe because of the extra work.”
But he went on to say, "The shifter is great. It is very accurate, light. It has that slick, Teflon, mechanical feel. Never worried about getting the wrong gear. The only trouble was trying to be as perfect when I have to change gears.”
I haven't watched the video but that quote was from the Motor Trend review. I'm not at all dissing the manual. I have the manual and wouldn't change a thing. Given that lap times don't put food on my table, I look forward to the "extra work."
But he went on to say, "The shifter is great. It is very accurate, light. It has that slick, Teflon, mechanical feel. Never worried about getting the wrong gear. The only trouble was trying to be as perfect when I have to change gears.”
I haven't watched the video but that quote was from the Motor Trend review. I'm not at all dissing the manual. I have the manual and wouldn't change a thing. Given that lap times don't put food on my table, I look forward to the "extra work."
03-15-2018, 06:26 PM
#65
Race Director
Remember Andrew at HPR? The manual is a handful. I don’t believe he was using rev matching either.
03-15-2018, 06:33 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
I heard of some porsche enthusiast in my area who actually bought both cars manual and pdk.....win win Baller status imo. Both great cars, the manual is great but that doesn't mean pdk is not fun and engaging as well.
In my case I had no choice but go with pdk but even if I did and chose pdk it doesn't mean it would have be the wrong choice just because of the "if you don't get paid to drive go with manual" saying that has now quickly becoming a cliche around here.
In my case I had no choice but go with pdk but even if I did and chose pdk it doesn't mean it would have be the wrong choice just because of the "if you don't get paid to drive go with manual" saying that has now quickly becoming a cliche around here.
03-15-2018, 06:34 PM
#67
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I usually use all that stuff (except in my 73 which has none).
03-15-2018, 06:34 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
I believe he wrecked it, which is why we don't see any official times for the RS......it happens to the best of us!
03-15-2018, 06:49 PM
#69
Race Director
I heard of some porsche enthusiast in my area who actually bought both cars manual and pdk.....win win Baller status imo. Both great cars, the manual is great but that doesn't mean pdk is not fun and engaging as well.
In my case I had no choice but go with pdk but even if I did and chose pdk it doesn't mean it would have be the wrong choice just because of the "if you don't get paid to drive go with manual" saying that has now quickly becoming a cliche around here.
In my case I had no choice but go with pdk but even if I did and chose pdk it doesn't mean it would have be the wrong choice just because of the "if you don't get paid to drive go with manual" saying that has now quickly becoming a cliche around here.
Just kidding!
03-15-2018, 06:51 PM
#70
Race Director
Andrew doesn't use any of the nannies (PSM, TC, Rev-Match, etc.). He was purposely being Driftmeister (and having lots of fun at it). I never had the sense that he ever got unintentionally out of shape (at least when I was riding along). Without any of the nannies, he still beat my personal best by a wide margin
I usually use all that stuff (except in my 73 which has none).
I usually use all that stuff (except in my 73 which has none).
03-15-2018, 07:55 PM
#71
Nordschleife Master
03-15-2018, 08:25 PM
#72
Nordschleife Master
My point is very simple. PDK over the course of multiple laps and especially in traffic and race conditions will prove to be faster. Show me one team in World Challenge or the Conti Series that uses MT. There is a proven and empherical reason why.
As Pobst pointed out:
“Way more difficult to do a perfect lap with the manual transmission. I seem to end up halfway between gears a lot, and it was easier to destabilize the car in the brake zone. It’s tricky to do the brake and entry perfectly when there’s a downshift in there. It’s much trickier to throw a downshift at it than not to. It’s reminiscent of what we have to deal with, with manual transmissions, having to decide what gear you need, and it takes more practice to do it perfectly in one lap. I didn’t get into the magic zone like I did with the PDK, maybe because of the extra work.”
Also, you, I and most here are not Pobst and can't peddle an MT car as efficiently (although I am pretty good at it) and well has him including proper rev matching/heal toe a major key to good lap times in a MT car. Put an average Joe like me or you in an MT and compare an average Joe in a PDK the PDK car likley a click faster per lap.
I love an mt car. All my weekend cars are mt including my race cars. The RS is the only non MT.
In the end you are right. Its all about having fun and the joy of ownership.
Last edited by Waxer; 03-15-2018 at 08:40 PM.
03-15-2018, 08:35 PM
#74
Pro
Aside from the unecessary "sarcasm" riddle me this....if what you say is true then tell me what all this teeth nashing is over with regard to the last tenth of a second on Ring times, PDK times vs. MT times, .2GT3 vs. .1RS, .2RS vs. .1RS times. Then if it's just all about going out and having fun with no chest beating as to which car is a tenth of a second faster or braggging the MT is just as fast as the PDK then who cares right? A '58 MGTD should fill the bill. Really have to double clutch that baby. Loads of driver involvment there.
My point is very simple. PDK over the course of multiple laps and especially in traffic and race conditions will prove to be faster. Show me one team in World Challenge or the Conti Series that uses MT. There is a proven and empherical reason why.
Also, you, I and most here are not Pobst and can't peddle an MT car as efficiently (although I am pretty good at it) and well has him including proper rev matching/heal toe a major key to good lap times in a MT car. Put an average Joe like me or you in an MT and compare an average Joe in a PDK the PDK car likley a click faster per lap.
I love an mt car. All my weekend cars are mt including my race cars. The RS is the only non MT.
My point is very simple. PDK over the course of multiple laps and especially in traffic and race conditions will prove to be faster. Show me one team in World Challenge or the Conti Series that uses MT. There is a proven and empherical reason why.
Also, you, I and most here are not Pobst and can't peddle an MT car as efficiently (although I am pretty good at it) and well has him including proper rev matching/heal toe a major key to good lap times in a MT car. Put an average Joe like me or you in an MT and compare an average Joe in a PDK the PDK car likley a click faster per lap.
I love an mt car. All my weekend cars are mt including my race cars. The RS is the only non MT.
And to compare race cars to the pdk, really is still apples and oranges, Porsche gt3 cup cars do not use pdk or manual, they use a true sequential gear box. So race cars aren't using pdk any more than they aren't using manuals.
The faster driver, in either car will still be the faster driver. The trans isn't going to take a slow guy and make him fast or vice versa.
The fact is, if the RS offered a manual, 65+% of us would be ordering with the manual, because it is more enjoyable to row your own gears.
I hope to have the chance to go after a hot lap in both, but I will say, so far the additional bottom end torque makes it far easier to keep the car up a gear when needed.
Best Regards,
Dave
03-15-2018, 09:31 PM
#75
Nordschleife Master
Since most don't race, and are just doing a fast lap or two, I see no reason a MT car can't run a PDK lap time. Albeit not 10 laps in a row, but traffic becomes a factor by then anyways.
And to compare race cars to the pdk, really is still apples and oranges, Porsche gt3 cup cars do not use pdk or manual, they use a true sequential gear box. So race cars aren't using pdk any more than they aren't using manuals.
The faster driver, in either car will still be the faster driver. The trans isn't going to take a slow guy and make him fast or vice versa.
The fact is, if the RS offered a manual, 65+% of us would be ordering with the manual, because it is more enjoyable to row your own gears.
I hope to have the chance to go after a hot lap in both, but I will say, so far the additional bottom end torque makes it far easier to keep the car up a gear when needed.
Best Regards,
Dave
A faster driver for a lap or two will be faster in either vs. a slower driver. True. However, equally fast drivers lap after lap the advantage goes to the non Mt car. When I am in by mt Trans Am 302 on track with a friend in his PDK 991 GT3 I know I have more to concentrate on and have to get it perfect to keep up. One mt mistake and he's gone.