US vs ROW: Why different take rates for MT?
02-17-2018, 12:25 PM
#91
Originally Posted by robmypro
But these cars mostly aren’t daily drivers. Traffic wouldn't factor into it - unless we are talking anout the 997 GT3 clutch. Dear lord.
I wouldn't daily my Spyder in heavy traffic, and I doubt the GT3 clutch is lighter than that.
02-17-2018, 12:27 PM
#92
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I’ve never had as much fun at the track in any car other than my 45 year old 911 hot rod. I’ve had it for 15 years and I can’t imagine owning another car that willl surpass it (faster yes, but better no).
02-17-2018, 01:23 PM
#93
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still remember Chris Harris being floored the first time he showed up at a Sebring track day.
.
02-17-2018, 01:46 PM
#94
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The PDK, like in F1, allows the driver to completely attack the track. All mental focus is on driving line, the apex, and speed. By the very nature of the manual, significant driving attention must be allocated to shifting the transmission. Some people enjoy that aspect, and i don’t blame them for it, or judge them. Others prefer the pure F1 style of being able to 100% attack a track. I just prefer the F1/European style. But again, that doesn’t make me right, but it gives us all choices so we can have the best experience.
02-17-2018, 02:00 PM
#95
Race Director
02-17-2018, 02:01 PM
#96
Race Director
02-17-2018, 08:47 PM
#97
Nordschleife Master
As a European, here are my thoughts.
Firstly, the majority of cars sold in Europe are manual so manuals are not a romantic novelty for most drivers over here as they are in the US.
Secondly, I get the feeling that the % of Europeans that track there GT3s is much higher than the US...and for this purpose....most do not want a manual...they want a PDK.....given that most drive manuals on a daily basis in their work cars.
Firstly, the majority of cars sold in Europe are manual so manuals are not a romantic novelty for most drivers over here as they are in the US.
Secondly, I get the feeling that the % of Europeans that track there GT3s is much higher than the US...and for this purpose....most do not want a manual...they want a PDK.....given that most drive manuals on a daily basis in their work cars.
02-19-2018, 05:32 AM
#98
Agree with Rob. As for purely lap times and faster cars, my 2002 996 C4S was the king of the track when I bought it new way back in 2002. I could keep up if not pass 400-500 HP monsters at that time. Fast forward to 2016-2017. Cars have improved. Vettes that I used to pass with impunity are now passing me, despite my driving my 320 HP 4WD car at 10/10ths. My lap times haven't worsened, they have just simply plateaued. It's just that all these other cars have jumped eons ahead in engineering and technology. I've maxed out what I can do with my beloved 996. I needed a newer, faster car, just to have more competitive fun. Fun being the keyword. Hence the 991.2 GT3. As to PDK vs manual, I believe I can do the 3 pedal ballet in my 996 with the best of them, and no longer feel the need for it, nor the need to prove I can do it. It comes across to me more as a nuisance now, a distraction to the experience of engagement with the whole car. I have a feeling that the ROW that grew up with manual boxes feel the same as I do, hence the higher take for the PDK.
But if like me, you drove manual by preference as a younger man, it was usually because an automatic just blunted performance and manual was the best way to get that connected feeling. Now that I have been able to progress to more exotic machines and those machines themselves have been able to find a way to make DCT transmissions better for the driver than manuals (faster, allowing you to exploit the power better on road and track by keeping your hands on the wheel at the most important time - when you are about to turn...) then DCT/PDK has a real appeal. I don’t need to prove anything about driving manuals, I don’t want that nostalgic feeling in expensive modern machines, I don’t object to the nannies working with me to keep things pointing forward on the road (I can always turn them off if I want, on track or on deserted roads where others won’t be affected) and so I prefer PDK on my RS. To the degree that it isn’t even a consideration. Had I been able to buy an R though, I would have jumped at that - rarity, beauty, old-school 911-ness. There the manual makes sense somehow. But not, for me, in a GT3.
02-19-2018, 11:51 AM
#99
Instructor
More internet forum cool-guys in the USA??
02-19-2018, 11:57 AM
#100
I'm curious if the die hard manual people here also like to use the word "engaged" with other activities. For example, maybe we could skip utensils and eat with our hands so we are more "engaged" with our meal.
Engaged should be on that most often used (misused) word thread.
Engaged should be on that most often used (misused) word thread.
02-19-2018, 12:00 PM
#101
Drifting
I figure there will always be a PDK going forward. So I went with the .2 GT3 in manual because it's available now and might not be in the future. The next car I get (maybe an RS) will have PDK though.
02-19-2018, 12:12 PM
#102
Race Director
Smart man. No guarantee the manual will be offered in the future. If this is the last one, it is a great send off.
02-19-2018, 12:48 PM
#103
Nordschleife Master
I'm curious if the die hard manual people here also like to use the word "engaged" with other activities. For example, maybe we could skip utensils and eat with our hands so we are more "engaged" with our meal.
Engaged should be on that most often used (misused) word thread.
Engaged should be on that most often used (misused) word thread.
Made my day. Thanks!
02-19-2018, 12:59 PM
#104
GT3 player par excellence
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As someone who grew up in the ‘rest of the world’, I totally understand this. Very few of my petrolhead supercar-owning friends would go back from DCT to manual, unless they wanted a particular car that only came in that configuration. I have made your point about keeping all four limbs on the key control surfaces before - I can’t really see why anyone would think differently. Chris Harris and other journos, I also understand. They are driving so many cars each month and almost all of the good ones are moving towards some form of automatic or DCT transmission. For them, manual is a reminder of what cars used to be like and the fact that people like Porsche still make their best car with a manual is to be celebrated. The feeling that you are doing the work, not the car, is enhanced by manual transmission.
But if like me, you drove manual by preference as a younger man, it was usually because an automatic just blunted performance and manual was the best way to get that connected feeling. Now that I have been able to progress to more exotic machines and those machines themselves have been able to find a way to make DCT transmissions better for the driver than manuals (faster, allowing you to exploit the power better on road and track by keeping your hands on the wheel at the most important time - when you are about to turn...) then DCT/PDK has a real appeal. I don’t need to prove anything about driving manuals, I don’t want that nostalgic feeling in expensive modern machines, I don’t object to the nannies working with me to keep things pointing forward on the road (I can always turn them off if I want, on track or on deserted roads where others won’t be affected) and so I prefer PDK on my RS. To the degree that it isn’t even a consideration. Had I been able to buy an R though, I would have jumped at that - rarity, beauty, old-school 911-ness. There the manual makes sense somehow. But not, for me, in a GT3.
haha, u may be on to something
I'm curious if the die hard manual people here also like to use the word "engaged" with other activities. For example, maybe we could skip utensils and eat with our hands so we are more "engaged" with our meal.
Engaged should be on that most often used (misused) word thread.
Engaged should be on that most often used (misused) word thread.
thus i have manual
02-19-2018, 03:35 PM
#105
I speccd manual simply because I find it more fun. I owned a few PDK cars when I was having some leg/hip issues and thought it was awesome, particularly when really pushing it in the mountains. Definitely better performing, fun and safer for me in those situations. However, I found that I got bored of the PDK in all other situations, which was a lot of my driving. I always found myself wanting to row gears all the time. OCD thing I think. So I sold all the automatics and have three manuals. I know I gave up some performance but they're simply more fun to drive for me.