Schmee GT3 and tour of Exclusive Manufaktur
02-11-2018, 01:15 AM
#46
Drifting
Always great to hear from Eduardo who has deeper knowledge than most anyone here.
I had suspected there might also be a labor union issue influencing these decisions too.
One thing that still doesn’t make sense to me... Why is something an Exclusive Option on one model/trim that needs to be done in the custom tailoring shop while it’s standard on another model/trim on same line?
For example, headlight washer nozzles. They’re either chrome or black standard on most 911 models. In fact, they’re black on GT3 and chrome on GT3 Touring. Now let’s say you want chrome ones on a regular GT3, which isn’t available to choose in the configurator. So to get that, Porsche will make you pay a lot via CXX. Are you seriously telling me that it wouldn’t make more sense for the guys on the line to just grab the chrome ones and put those on the car in the normal line like they might have just done on the Touring that went by before?
I understand PTS painted bits are a whole other story. I’m just talking about common standard parts that are obviously readily available and used on the normal factory line all the day long on other cars. What’s the logic in sending a car to the custom shop to fit those parts instead of just doing it on the line? Can only imagine that has to do with labor union contracts... I’d never call Porsche stupid. They make too much profit and make products way too great to be that.
I had suspected there might also be a labor union issue influencing these decisions too.
One thing that still doesn’t make sense to me... Why is something an Exclusive Option on one model/trim that needs to be done in the custom tailoring shop while it’s standard on another model/trim on same line?
For example, headlight washer nozzles. They’re either chrome or black standard on most 911 models. In fact, they’re black on GT3 and chrome on GT3 Touring. Now let’s say you want chrome ones on a regular GT3, which isn’t available to choose in the configurator. So to get that, Porsche will make you pay a lot via CXX. Are you seriously telling me that it wouldn’t make more sense for the guys on the line to just grab the chrome ones and put those on the car in the normal line like they might have just done on the Touring that went by before?
I understand PTS painted bits are a whole other story. I’m just talking about common standard parts that are obviously readily available and used on the normal factory line all the day long on other cars. What’s the logic in sending a car to the custom shop to fit those parts instead of just doing it on the line? Can only imagine that has to do with labor union contracts... I’d never call Porsche stupid. They make too much profit and make products way too great to be that.
I spent two years living in Japan after college. I'd go into a restaurant. Let's say a burger place. Maybe you don't like mustard. But the burger you want comes with it. So you ask for no mustard, please. Well the response you get from the person taking your order is a look of equal parts puzzlement and shock and quiet anger. Why? Because the menu says it comes with mustard. So they have to put the mustard on. But you tell them, hey it's really quite easy to just NOT put the mustard on the burger. Like it's not going to mess up their job or process. Right when they get to the part where they are supposed to put the mustard on... just don't. Really easy, right? Nope. Not to them. The process calls for mustard. So they must do it. Even if it makes no sense. It's cultural.
02-11-2018, 01:15 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
But then for someone else in this forum (not the two gents above) to categorize
& label Porsche (& to generalize about Germans) as 'stupid' because of this
peculiar post-assembly method at Exclusive Manufaktur is, in my opinion, rather
presumptuous, condescending, insensitive & insulting!
& label Porsche (& to generalize about Germans) as 'stupid' because of this
peculiar post-assembly method at Exclusive Manufaktur is, in my opinion, rather
presumptuous, condescending, insensitive & insulting!
Sorry, I lost my political correctness filter somewhere, might have even sold it to help pay for the 918, so yeah, I got no filter left, well except my no-bull-crap one, if it smells like a dog, looks like a dog, walks like a dog, bark likes a dog, I will call it a dog as it is a dog.
Oh, I even called them stupid and generalizing them as 'straight forward' in their face too at the factory in Stuttgart. Gave me a shrug and surrender sign and we head to a bar and drink beer afterwards. Unlike some other people, these Germans do have a sense of humour.
So yeah, they know what I called them as, no need to try and stress that. They know that way is stupid too but they don't quite have a way around it.
02-11-2018, 01:19 AM
#48
All I can say is I am sure there is a reason for the way things are the way they are in Zuffenhausen. I always think there are people smarter than me doing this and they have their reasons. At the end of the day they build the greatest cars on the planet IMO so I am a happy customer.
02-11-2018, 01:21 AM
#49
Oh and it was interesting that Shmee himself said on the Pistonheads forum that he had the black rooftop as a "placeholder" during the factory build process when he was there, doesn't know how or why
02-11-2018, 01:24 AM
#50
GT3 player par excellence
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Sorry, I lost my political correctness filter somewhere, might have even sold it to help pay for the 918, so yeah, I got no filter left, well except my no-bull-crap one, if it smells like a dog, looks like a dog, walks like a dog, bark likes a dog, I will call it a dog as it is a dog.
Oh, I even called them stupid and generalizing them as 'straight forward' in their face too at the factory in Stuttgart. Gave me a shrug and surrender sign and we head to a bar and drink beer afterwards. Unlike some other people, these Germans do have a sense of humour.
So yeah, they know what I called them as, no need to try and stress that. They know that way is stupid too but they don't quite have a way around it.
Oh, I even called them stupid and generalizing them as 'straight forward' in their face too at the factory in Stuttgart. Gave me a shrug and surrender sign and we head to a bar and drink beer afterwards. Unlike some other people, these Germans do have a sense of humour.
So yeah, they know what I called them as, no need to try and stress that. They know that way is stupid too but they don't quite have a way around it.
All I can say is I am sure there is a reason for the way things are the way they are in Zuffenhausen. I always think there are people smarter than me doing this and they have their reasons. At the end of the day they build the greatest cars on the planet IMO so I am a happy customer.
i do not know much about german culture but some of my own cutlture's doing would freak out those that are PC.
02-11-2018, 02:47 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by evilfij 
Until I saw this I did not believe they actually installed new parts after it is built.
Until I saw this I did not believe they actually installed new parts after it is built.
02-11-2018, 03:07 AM
#52
Race Car
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Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Yes, Porsche is quite stupid that way. Or another way to put it, too straight forward.
One would think those specially ordered customized parts would just go directly to the line and installed there, it's what common sense dictate and make sense to most people. But not to the Germans.
The straight forward thinking Germans however think it's better to fit 'dummy' place holders, aka standard production trim pieces on the car first, then take it all apart somewhere else to put the customized one on. Oh and the take off items? They are disposed even when they are brand new. One reason some of the CXX items are stupidly expensive.
Like a few years ago for the GT3RS, the 12 o'clock yellow stripe can be changed to orange but It's like a 7k option or something I forgot. The reason being they install the yellow stripe wheel on the car first, then head to Exclusive to chuck that perfectly good one away and put on a brand new customized one with the orange stripe.
One would think those specially ordered customized parts would just go directly to the line and installed there, it's what common sense dictate and make sense to most people. But not to the Germans.
The straight forward thinking Germans however think it's better to fit 'dummy' place holders, aka standard production trim pieces on the car first, then take it all apart somewhere else to put the customized one on. Oh and the take off items? They are disposed even when they are brand new. One reason some of the CXX items are stupidly expensive.
Like a few years ago for the GT3RS, the 12 o'clock yellow stripe can be changed to orange but It's like a 7k option or something I forgot. The reason being they install the yellow stripe wheel on the car first, then head to Exclusive to chuck that perfectly good one away and put on a brand new customized one with the orange stripe.
not able to do properly business analysis , planning, communication, risk management
but relying on selfselling product (which show creeps look the GT3.1 case and the way they mismanaged the design phase and mismanaged the solution until reaction came because a forum thread ....just comical to be fair)
and this come from experience having worked for German multinationals
story repeats itself , take any empire life cycle
all good until good soldiers aren't overcome by number and lack of common sense stupid politicians born in whelpy society . lacking history memory reality and living alienated in Crystal *****
They will simply corrode gram by gram the good job done so far
God save the 2 engineers at PAG
Last edited by fxz; 02-11-2018 at 05:01 AM.
02-11-2018, 03:52 AM
#53
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
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What makes this all the more funny is people pay what can be crazy money for CXX options when the only difference between you or your dealer installing them or CXX is that the guy taking the old part off and the new one on and a line on the build sheet that says CXX (with no description, just price). And you get to keep the old parts.
02-11-2018, 05:04 AM
#54
Don't know if this has already been shared, but I thought I'd throw it out there. We all know excitable Schmee has ordered a GT3, here's a vid of him putting some finishing touches on it in the Porsche Exclusive dept in Zuffenhausen. Pretty cool, especially on mute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-cSI_MzQc&t=281s
I just sold my GT3 and this makes me miss it almost immediately.
Thoughts on color?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-cSI_MzQc&t=281s
I just sold my GT3 and this makes me miss it almost immediately.
Thoughts on color?
Last edited by 8enny8lack; 02-11-2018 at 05:09 AM. Reason: asld;kgha;kj
02-11-2018, 11:03 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
Schmee-- I have never had such a strong, negative reaction to a human being in my life. I have tried to watch this guys videos so many times- even on mute- but his face brings violent thoughts, and I suddenly get sick at the thought of giving him the clicks and attention. I can't explain it. It makes me feel bad about myself. I'm going to go do some community service to make up for the awful, horrible things I just thought.
02-11-2018, 11:16 AM
#56
What makes this all the more funny is people pay what can be crazy money for CXX options when the only difference between you or your dealer installing them or CXX is that the guy taking the old part off and the new one on and a line on the build sheet that says CXX (with no description, just price). And you get to keep the old parts.
02-11-2018, 12:09 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
Schmee-- I have never had such a strong, negative reaction to a human being in my life. I have tried to watch this guys videos so many times- even on mute- but his face brings violent thoughts, and I suddenly get sick at the thought of giving him the clicks and attention. I can't explain it. It makes me feel bad about myself. I'm going to go do some community service to make up for the awful, horrible things I just thought.
02-11-2018, 06:15 PM
#58
Some here close to the matter already comment on the complexity of a production process. I don't know the Porsche IT landscape in detail for the production process, but I know others within the Volkswagen Group. If someone here knows what FIS is, they know what I am talking about....
I am almost sure if Porsche could eliminate the hight cost option to dump brand new parts after assembly, get cars manually to the exclusive shop and get parts installed which most of the items are straight from the price list, they would do in a second. The demand for this parts are today much higher than in the past (at least numbers of cars per day at the exclusive shop are much higher than ever before).
To test drive your German....
http://autogramm.volkswagen.de/11_14...ktuell_14.html
I am almost sure if Porsche could eliminate the hight cost option to dump brand new parts after assembly, get cars manually to the exclusive shop and get parts installed which most of the items are straight from the price list, they would do in a second. The demand for this parts are today much higher than in the past (at least numbers of cars per day at the exclusive shop are much higher than ever before).
To test drive your German....
http://autogramm.volkswagen.de/11_14...ktuell_14.html
02-11-2018, 07:21 PM
#60
Race Director
Originally Posted by evilfij
What makes this all the more funny is people pay what can be crazy money for CXX options when the only difference between you or your dealer installing them or CXX is that the guy taking the old part off and the new one on and a line on the build sheet that says CXX (with no description, just price). And you get to keep the old parts.