Orthojoe says .2 with manual is AWESOME
12-31-2017 | 11:47 AM
#106
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12-31-2017 | 01:16 PM
#107
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Hey Joe - please let us know what it's like on the track.
Please, just don't mention the transmission. There are too many morons here who will argue about that for hours. Those discussions need to stop. As do the pointless questions about stitching, headlights, seats, value, etc.
Let's get back to discussions of tire pressures, camber, and all the really important stuff!
Please, just don't mention the transmission. There are too many morons here who will argue about that for hours. Those discussions need to stop. As do the pointless questions about stitching, headlights, seats, value, etc.
Let's get back to discussions of tire pressures, camber, and all the really important stuff!
01-01-2018 | 01:21 AM
#109
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^ joe posted fast time at laguna today with .2 he will comment soon.
ti's hard to have direct comparison bn .1 and .2
two variable
displacement AND gearbox
ti's hard to have direct comparison bn .1 and .2
two variable
displacement AND gearbox
01-01-2018 | 04:13 AM
#111
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01-01-2018 | 11:51 AM
#113
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[QUOTE=mooty;14702754]^ joe posted fast time at laguna today with .2 he will comment soon.
ti's hard to have direct comparison bn .1 and .2
two variable
displacement AND gearbox[/QUOTE]
Mooty, I would argue that the two variables you mention are among the VERY BEST REASONS for our much anticipated review of Joe's on track experience of the .1 vs .2. In addition to Joe's comments on the FEEL of the .2 on track vs the .1 (I.e., revised suspension, new tire technology, increased low end torque, finer tuned steering response, better aero etc), his laptimes would also be telling. I say that we are all eagerly awaiting Joe's on-track impressions BECAUSE of the variables between the two cars. C'mon Joe...dish!!
ti's hard to have direct comparison bn .1 and .2
two variable
displacement AND gearbox[/QUOTE]
Mooty, I would argue that the two variables you mention are among the VERY BEST REASONS for our much anticipated review of Joe's on track experience of the .1 vs .2. In addition to Joe's comments on the FEEL of the .2 on track vs the .1 (I.e., revised suspension, new tire technology, increased low end torque, finer tuned steering response, better aero etc), his laptimes would also be telling. I say that we are all eagerly awaiting Joe's on-track impressions BECAUSE of the variables between the two cars. C'mon Joe...dish!!
01-01-2018 | 12:40 PM
#114
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Comparing the cars will ideally be done back to back, with equal tires on the cars (they're the same size), optimum tire pressures, factory alignment, and pushing both cars comparably hard. Otherwise, the experiment is liable to be too 'uncontrolled'.
BTW, Happy New Year to everyone!
BTW, Happy New Year to everyone!
01-01-2018 | 01:40 PM
#115
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Comparing the cars will ideally be done back to back, with equal tires on the cars (they're the same size), optimum tire pressures, factory alignment, and pushing both cars comparably hard. Otherwise, the experiment is liable to be too 'uncontrolled'.
BTW, Happy New Year to everyone!
BTW, Happy New Year to everyone!
01-01-2018 | 02:56 PM
#116
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From: Bay Area
Happy New Year, everyone!
Thanks for the interest and your patience, LOL! Sorry for keeping you guys waiting, but it's been a busy week and I wanted to make sure I do this right without setting off another stupid round of PDK vs. manual diarrhea
First off, many thanks to my buddy for letting me try out his car at Laguna Seca yesterday.
Before we get started, let's set the table so we know where everything is coming from:
1) The setup: factory alignment, factory tires, factory sway bar settings. The only 3 things on the car that were changed were brake pads (switched to Ferodo DS1.11(thanks, Clark)), laguna gps box, and laguna turnaway pipes.
2) The owner has been driving a viper ACR-E for the past year, and I've been driving a GT4 and .1 GT3 for the past year (backgrounds will be relevant in terms of what our comments were with the car)
Let's get to the fun stuff:
Here is the car:
It's now totally WORTHLESS!:
Here is a video captured from my helmet cam and from the iphone track app merged together. I had one 'get to know you' session that yielded at 1:38. The following session I lined up front, did an outlap, and got in one hot lap before running into traffic and getting meatballed at the same time because the GPS device shorted out and failed. With those excuses out of the way, that one hot lap yielded a 1:37.7. My best in the .1 GT3 at this track was 1:36.9. I think once I get a day or 2 under my belt, I can get the car to run consistent 1:36s. 1:35 if it's a good day. A pro national champ like Andrie could get 1:34. An untouchable like Pobst will get 1:33. I believe the new car is one second faster than the .1.
The brakes:
The owner didn't want to run OEM pads even though I suggested they would be fine to track with. The Ferodos felt really good to me. I seemed to be able to brake just as late as my GT4 even though the entry speeds were higher. Who know why that would be, though. Could be because of the tires, the pads, etc. In any case, the car stops just fine and very well with the oem rotor and ferodo ds1.11 setup. No surprise there. It's funny, though, the owner really didn't like the brakes. I'm pretty sure it's because he's coming from the viper ACR. I've never driven a car that brakes better than the ACR. It puts GT3s to shame, no joke. He just needs to reset, IMO.
The dynamics:
The car with factory alignment and sway bar settings drives very well. I've said this before and many will back me up on this: alignment changes do not improve the performance of this car. This is true for the GT4 and the GT3. To me, the car felt nicely balanced. A touch of oversteer when you slip over the edge. Nothing dramatic or scary. I would like to have the rear end planted more on exit, so I plan to increase the wing attack angle and stiffen the front bar as my first 'change' on my own car when it arrives. Otherwise, it drives VERY similarly to my .1 with all the alignment changes. The owner thought the car understeered to much, but again I think this is because he is coming from the ACR and going way to hot into the corners that the ACR would be able to handle, but a 911 just cant.
The tires:
They don't feel any different to me, but I'm sure the differences are very subtle. Cup2s tend to be their best on their first day and these tires didn't disappoint. I had the owner set tires pressures at 25F/27R psi cold and we never adjusted the pressures after that. The tires were very consistent all day and throughout the sessions. It's hard to say for sure because it's just the first day, but the wear patterns appears to be the exact same as on the .1 with -2.7/-2.4 camber. The tires will definitely need to be flipped side to side because of the increased wear on the right side from running a CCW config.
The engine:
There's not much to say other than it's the best engine out there right now. I will admit that in the heat of a track run, it's hard to tell the difference between the .1 and .2 engine.
The transmission:
This was a bit of a roller coaster ride for me. The first session out was to get a feel for the car. I had no idea what gears I should be using for the corners and it ended up causing a bit of chaos and frustration for me. I even had a hard time getting the shifter into gear at times, which is never a problem for me. Maybe because it is a new box or maybe it is because I didn't want to money shift someone else's car. I eventually got the hang of it, but for whatever reason, that stiffer click into gear makes shifting a bit more deliberate and slower than the GT4. Hopefully it's just because it's a new gear box and it will get better with more miles and more seat time. Then there was the issue of gearing ratios. Going into T6 at Laguna I could either bounce of the rev limiter once or shift into 4th and then drop back into 3rd right away. For that corner you want the car to be totally settled before turn in, so staying in 3rd was what I opted for. Can someone confirm that the gearing ratios are shorter with the pdk over the manual? In my .1, the car would shift into 4th and still have some time to accelerate before going back into 3rd for T6. I found myself longing for a PDK, but also enjoying the manual once I started to figure out the gearing and the shifter. I still contended that there will only be a minimal difference between PDK and manual in terms of lap times once the driver figures out the manual. I think the majority of that small advantage will come from the gearing ratio that PDK has. At certain turns, that extra time in the next gear will squeeze out an extra tenth out of a corner that the manual can't do because of gearing and needing to keep the car settled. My recommendation on transmission will be to pick either one if you didn't own the last GT3. If you owned a .1 GT3, then get a manual this time because it will be a new experience. Mooty is always right. Best to have both if you can. LOL.
You guys can use this video to compare the gearing between the .1PDK and the .2manual video posted above.
The track app:
It's no secret that when Porsche rolled out with their first version of the track app, it was a total disaster. They have since made improvements to it and made it 'free'. It is now what I would consider acceptable. It's not out of the ballpark good, but at least usable. It is still not totally reliable. I have a session where the data is not sync'd properly to the video. Here you can see it:
However, it worked MOST of the time. I'm looking forward to using an external camera like my sony action cam instead of the phone camera since the app allows you to do that. I look forward to seeing how that works. Also, if anybody knows how to switch from kph to mph, please let me know. I can't figure that out. In the end, I still prefer using an AiM Solo DL and my sony action cameras, but the app is a simpler solution. Oh, the accuracy is pretty good too. Only 0.1 seconds off of a transponder using the in car GPS antenna
Final thoughts:
Porsche does it again. They made an already great car incrementally better. If you already have a .1 and are thinking about getting a .2 in PDK, I'm not sure it will be a huge difference, but it will be better! If you have a .1 and plan to get a .2 in manual, it will be a refreshing new experience. Now let's get to driving these cars and posting videos and lap times!
Thanks for the interest and your patience, LOL! Sorry for keeping you guys waiting, but it's been a busy week and I wanted to make sure I do this right without setting off another stupid round of PDK vs. manual diarrhea
First off, many thanks to my buddy for letting me try out his car at Laguna Seca yesterday.
Before we get started, let's set the table so we know where everything is coming from:
1) The setup: factory alignment, factory tires, factory sway bar settings. The only 3 things on the car that were changed were brake pads (switched to Ferodo DS1.11(thanks, Clark)), laguna gps box, and laguna turnaway pipes.
2) The owner has been driving a viper ACR-E for the past year, and I've been driving a GT4 and .1 GT3 for the past year (backgrounds will be relevant in terms of what our comments were with the car)
Let's get to the fun stuff:
Here is the car:
It's now totally WORTHLESS!:
Here is a video captured from my helmet cam and from the iphone track app merged together. I had one 'get to know you' session that yielded at 1:38. The following session I lined up front, did an outlap, and got in one hot lap before running into traffic and getting meatballed at the same time because the GPS device shorted out and failed. With those excuses out of the way, that one hot lap yielded a 1:37.7. My best in the .1 GT3 at this track was 1:36.9. I think once I get a day or 2 under my belt, I can get the car to run consistent 1:36s. 1:35 if it's a good day. A pro national champ like Andrie could get 1:34. An untouchable like Pobst will get 1:33. I believe the new car is one second faster than the .1.
The brakes:
The owner didn't want to run OEM pads even though I suggested they would be fine to track with. The Ferodos felt really good to me. I seemed to be able to brake just as late as my GT4 even though the entry speeds were higher. Who know why that would be, though. Could be because of the tires, the pads, etc. In any case, the car stops just fine and very well with the oem rotor and ferodo ds1.11 setup. No surprise there. It's funny, though, the owner really didn't like the brakes. I'm pretty sure it's because he's coming from the viper ACR. I've never driven a car that brakes better than the ACR. It puts GT3s to shame, no joke. He just needs to reset, IMO.
The dynamics:
The car with factory alignment and sway bar settings drives very well. I've said this before and many will back me up on this: alignment changes do not improve the performance of this car. This is true for the GT4 and the GT3. To me, the car felt nicely balanced. A touch of oversteer when you slip over the edge. Nothing dramatic or scary. I would like to have the rear end planted more on exit, so I plan to increase the wing attack angle and stiffen the front bar as my first 'change' on my own car when it arrives. Otherwise, it drives VERY similarly to my .1 with all the alignment changes. The owner thought the car understeered to much, but again I think this is because he is coming from the ACR and going way to hot into the corners that the ACR would be able to handle, but a 911 just cant.
The tires:
They don't feel any different to me, but I'm sure the differences are very subtle. Cup2s tend to be their best on their first day and these tires didn't disappoint. I had the owner set tires pressures at 25F/27R psi cold and we never adjusted the pressures after that. The tires were very consistent all day and throughout the sessions. It's hard to say for sure because it's just the first day, but the wear patterns appears to be the exact same as on the .1 with -2.7/-2.4 camber. The tires will definitely need to be flipped side to side because of the increased wear on the right side from running a CCW config.
The engine:
There's not much to say other than it's the best engine out there right now. I will admit that in the heat of a track run, it's hard to tell the difference between the .1 and .2 engine.
The transmission:
This was a bit of a roller coaster ride for me. The first session out was to get a feel for the car. I had no idea what gears I should be using for the corners and it ended up causing a bit of chaos and frustration for me. I even had a hard time getting the shifter into gear at times, which is never a problem for me. Maybe because it is a new box or maybe it is because I didn't want to money shift someone else's car. I eventually got the hang of it, but for whatever reason, that stiffer click into gear makes shifting a bit more deliberate and slower than the GT4. Hopefully it's just because it's a new gear box and it will get better with more miles and more seat time. Then there was the issue of gearing ratios. Going into T6 at Laguna I could either bounce of the rev limiter once or shift into 4th and then drop back into 3rd right away. For that corner you want the car to be totally settled before turn in, so staying in 3rd was what I opted for. Can someone confirm that the gearing ratios are shorter with the pdk over the manual? In my .1, the car would shift into 4th and still have some time to accelerate before going back into 3rd for T6. I found myself longing for a PDK, but also enjoying the manual once I started to figure out the gearing and the shifter. I still contended that there will only be a minimal difference between PDK and manual in terms of lap times once the driver figures out the manual. I think the majority of that small advantage will come from the gearing ratio that PDK has. At certain turns, that extra time in the next gear will squeeze out an extra tenth out of a corner that the manual can't do because of gearing and needing to keep the car settled. My recommendation on transmission will be to pick either one if you didn't own the last GT3. If you owned a .1 GT3, then get a manual this time because it will be a new experience. Mooty is always right. Best to have both if you can. LOL.
You guys can use this video to compare the gearing between the .1PDK and the .2manual video posted above.
The track app:
It's no secret that when Porsche rolled out with their first version of the track app, it was a total disaster. They have since made improvements to it and made it 'free'. It is now what I would consider acceptable. It's not out of the ballpark good, but at least usable. It is still not totally reliable. I have a session where the data is not sync'd properly to the video. Here you can see it:
However, it worked MOST of the time. I'm looking forward to using an external camera like my sony action cam instead of the phone camera since the app allows you to do that. I look forward to seeing how that works. Also, if anybody knows how to switch from kph to mph, please let me know. I can't figure that out. In the end, I still prefer using an AiM Solo DL and my sony action cameras, but the app is a simpler solution. Oh, the accuracy is pretty good too. Only 0.1 seconds off of a transponder using the in car GPS antenna
Final thoughts:
Porsche does it again. They made an already great car incrementally better. If you already have a .1 and are thinking about getting a .2 in PDK, I'm not sure it will be a huge difference, but it will be better! If you have a .1 and plan to get a .2 in manual, it will be a refreshing new experience. Now let's get to driving these cars and posting videos and lap times!
