** The "market adjustment" issue **
09-09-2015, 06:15 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
^ This..
I don't like that the cars continue to land in the hands of the same people. Repeat customers, grandfathered in 918 buyers etc. that **** money. There are more than enough buyers for these cars that they don't need to go into the hands of preferred customers each time. ( and I get that it is their reward so to speak for multiple purchases) It's is no way to bring new buyers into the brand for future purchases which I think they will eventually need.
I don't like that the cars continue to land in the hands of the same people. Repeat customers, grandfathered in 918 buyers etc. that **** money. There are more than enough buyers for these cars that they don't need to go into the hands of preferred customers each time. ( and I get that it is their reward so to speak for multiple purchases) It's is no way to bring new buyers into the brand for future purchases which I think they will eventually need.
seriously, return and loyal customers should be rewarded. This applies to any other businesses.
as for GT cars being hard to get, try ordering a brand new Hermes Birkins bag. I guarantee that a new customer cannot buy one no matter what.
09-09-2015, 07:02 PM
#47
Instructor
Would this discussion be going on if the MSRP was $200K on a GT3 and dealers were "discounting" them?
Based on the current market, it appears that the MSRP is too low on GT cars.
Based on the current market, it appears that the MSRP is too low on GT cars.
09-09-2015, 07:07 PM
#48
Race Director
Thread Starter
** The "market adjustment" issue **
Originally Posted by gurneyeagle
Would this discussion be going on if the MSRP was $200K on a GT3 and dealers were "discounting" them?
Based on the current market, it appears that the MSRP is too low on GT cars.
Based on the current market, it appears that the MSRP is too low on GT cars.
Supply is too low for the demand. Simple economics. Why not make 10 GT3's and charge $1,000,000 each for them?
We saw how well the 918's sold when they were overpriced. They needed to sweeten the deal with 10yrs worth of allocation perks to move them.
A pretty big gap between your top model being in the low 200K range then jumping up to a million. Ferrari easily does it. Different buyers and more cash in that group.
Oh, brings up a good point. They're not really "perks" if the cars are readily available are they?? So back to square one. It's by design. Buyers want exclusivity and Porsche wants the leverage and frenzy.
09-09-2015, 10:07 PM
#49
Drifting
new buyers will start with Macan, Cayenne, etc.
seriously, return and loyal customers should be rewarded. This applies to any other businesses.
as for GT cars being hard to get, try ordering a brand new Hermes Birkins bag. I guarantee that a new customer cannot buy one no matter what.
seriously, return and loyal customers should be rewarded. This applies to any other businesses.
as for GT cars being hard to get, try ordering a brand new Hermes Birkins bag. I guarantee that a new customer cannot buy one no matter what.
As for a Hermes bag you don't want to know what I think of those..
09-09-2015, 10:12 PM
#50
Instructor
09-09-2015, 10:13 PM
#51
Race Car
09-09-2015, 10:19 PM
#52
Instructor
That's the thing. It's not a 200K car. It's priced where it needs to be at. Why would some suggest raising prices on them? The car isn't worth 200K.
Supply is too low for the demand. Simple economics. Why not make 10 GT3's and charge $1,000,000 each for them?
We saw how well the 918's sold when they were overpriced. They needed to sweeten the deal with 10yrs worth of allocation perks to move them.
A pretty big gap between your top model being in the low 200K range then jumping up to a million. Ferrari easily does it. Different buyers and more cash in that group.
Oh, brings up a good point. They're not really "perks" if the cars are readily available are they?? So back to square one. It's by design. Buyers want exclusivity and Porsche wants the leverage and frenzy.
Supply is too low for the demand. Simple economics. Why not make 10 GT3's and charge $1,000,000 each for them?
We saw how well the 918's sold when they were overpriced. They needed to sweeten the deal with 10yrs worth of allocation perks to move them.
A pretty big gap between your top model being in the low 200K range then jumping up to a million. Ferrari easily does it. Different buyers and more cash in that group.
Oh, brings up a good point. They're not really "perks" if the cars are readily available are they?? So back to square one. It's by design. Buyers want exclusivity and Porsche wants the leverage and frenzy.
It's the perfect example of supply versus demand where the market determines a price. It's really interesting to watch the cars in unique colors, especially PTS, sell for way more than the white, silver, and black ones.
I would argue that in the case of the 918, the cost drove the MSRP which was obviously more than the market deemed of value.
BTW - Thank you for your daily "Hot for sale pick of the week" thread! I know you put a lot of time into it, and it is very entertaining.
Last edited by gurneyeagle; 09-10-2015 at 08:57 PM.
09-09-2015, 10:35 PM
#53
Race Director
Thread Starter
** The "market adjustment" issue **
Originally Posted by gurneyeagle
BTW - Thank you for your daily "Hot for sale pick of the week" thread! I know you put a lot of time into it, and it is very entertaining.
These car business topics are also of interest to me.
09-09-2015, 10:47 PM
#54
Demand is clearly driven by (us) the buyer, and Porsche reads these boards just like BMW for market research. If (we) stopped paying over for the cars the market will soften, and since we can afford these cars we start talking with our wallets not brains by buying the cars.
Now the flip side I don't fault a person that wants to spend 20k to 100k to be the first to have the new toy. Some people are willing to pay 10k over which seems tolerable on this board, but what about the guy who makes 10X the person that paid 10k over. Hate to say it it's the same number, but one just has bigger pockets and wants the car vs. waiting.
If we all get cars great, and if not 458 here I come.
Now the flip side I don't fault a person that wants to spend 20k to 100k to be the first to have the new toy. Some people are willing to pay 10k over which seems tolerable on this board, but what about the guy who makes 10X the person that paid 10k over. Hate to say it it's the same number, but one just has bigger pockets and wants the car vs. waiting.
If we all get cars great, and if not 458 here I come.
09-09-2015, 11:04 PM
#55
Race Director
Thread Starter
** The "market adjustment" issue **
Originally Posted by Maverick787
Demand is clearly driven by (us) the buyer, and Porsche reads these boards just like BMW for market research.
As far as market research? Any fresh out of college marketing major covering these boards and reporting on them has their work cut out for them! I think they'd report some sort of chemical imbalances with Porsche owners on here. Who would have the patience and filter through all this stuff??
09-09-2015, 11:26 PM
#56
I think any PCNA executives dismiss these boards as Internet chatter and they think they know more.
As far as market research? Any fresh out of college marketing major covering these boards and reporting on them has their work cut out for them! I think they'd report some sort of chemical imbalances with Porsche owners on here. Who would have the patience and filter through all this stuff??
As far as market research? Any fresh out of college marketing major covering these boards and reporting on them has their work cut out for them! I think they'd report some sort of chemical imbalances with Porsche owners on here. Who would have the patience and filter through all this stuff??
09-10-2015, 12:12 AM
#57
this +1
And a manufacturer can absolutely decide the terms of their franchise/brand licensing with dealers, including requirements on pricing. Their recourse, ultimately is to pull dealer licenses. They aren't going to do that because the dealers are their customers (really). However, my point is that PAG/PCNA isn't being smart right now because their GT cars are obviously under priced and their supply is obviously too low. They could charge more, produce more, and still have a few people waiting/wanting to maintain the halo effect. Then everyone wins. PAG/PCNA see more profit, dealers still get their cut, customers still have to pay higher prices. But most that want a car get one, and it just gets rid of all the ebay auction shaningans that are happening at the dealers right now.
And a manufacturer can absolutely decide the terms of their franchise/brand licensing with dealers, including requirements on pricing. Their recourse, ultimately is to pull dealer licenses. They aren't going to do that because the dealers are their customers (really). However, my point is that PAG/PCNA isn't being smart right now because their GT cars are obviously under priced and their supply is obviously too low. They could charge more, produce more, and still have a few people waiting/wanting to maintain the halo effect. Then everyone wins. PAG/PCNA see more profit, dealers still get their cut, customers still have to pay higher prices. But most that want a car get one, and it just gets rid of all the ebay auction shaningans that are happening at the dealers right now.
I'm okay with waiting to purchase at MSRP, vs get something now at a premium. However, if the MSRP was much more than what it is currently, I possibly wouldn't be a buyer, depending on the price point. So this way, Porsche gets my money (as well as many others in the market) and they let their dealers run their business as they choose. I am new to the brand...but have been following the GT market now for about 8 months. But.... It Seems to me that this 'issue' is really only a VERY small part of Porsches business.
Respectfully,
-PT3-
09-10-2015, 12:31 AM
#58
^ This..
I don't like that the cars continue to land in the hands of the same people. Repeat customers, grandfathered in 918 buyers etc. that **** money. There are more than enough buyers for these cars that they don't need to go into the hands of preferred customers each time. ( and I get that it is their reward so to speak for multiple purchases) It's is no way to bring new buyers into the brand for future purchases which I think they will eventually need.
I don't like that the cars continue to land in the hands of the same people. Repeat customers, grandfathered in 918 buyers etc. that **** money. There are more than enough buyers for these cars that they don't need to go into the hands of preferred customers each time. ( and I get that it is their reward so to speak for multiple purchases) It's is no way to bring new buyers into the brand for future purchases which I think they will eventually need.
Had I not been attracted into the brand by the GT3, I wouldn't be considering them for my next daily drive replacement. The regular 911 wouldn't have brought me in. I would have opted for a new Z06 or used 430 as I was looking for a track-focused toy.
I think they should make more of them, period. The reality is, MOST car buyers won't be interested in the GT3. So it will still remain a fairly exclusive model.
09-10-2015, 12:34 AM
#59
Dealers have every right to charge over MSRP if buyers are willing to pay. I blame buyers that are impatient and must have it now, as they are the ones feeding the bubble. More money does not mean more brains. In a capitalist society aren't dealers allowed to capitalize on buyers willing to pay a premium. FWIW the entire over MSRP makes me sick but it's the buyers fault. The best tool in negotiating is your feet, learn to walk away.
09-10-2015, 01:15 AM
#60
Nordschleife Master
I don't understand why you are promoting the concept of INCREASING the price? That's an interesting position for a consumer of the product. You'd rather NOT have the option of possibly purchasing the product (GT3 in this case) at a lower price point?
I'm okay with waiting to purchase at MSRP, vs get something now at a premium. However, if the MSRP was much more than what it is currently, I possibly wouldn't be a buyer, depending on the price point. So this way, Porsche gets my money (as well as many others in the market) and they let their dealers run their business as they choose. I am new to the brand...but have been following the GT market now for about 8 months. But.... It Seems to me that this 'issue' is really only a VERY small part of Porsches business.
Respectfully,
-PT3-
I'm okay with waiting to purchase at MSRP, vs get something now at a premium. However, if the MSRP was much more than what it is currently, I possibly wouldn't be a buyer, depending on the price point. So this way, Porsche gets my money (as well as many others in the market) and they let their dealers run their business as they choose. I am new to the brand...but have been following the GT market now for about 8 months. But.... It Seems to me that this 'issue' is really only a VERY small part of Porsches business.
Respectfully,
-PT3-