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PSC2 vs Trofeo R speed difference

 
Old 01-31-2015, 10:03 PM
  #16  
916Bob
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Great report... I'm looking forward to hearing if the loss in wear is appropriate for the improvement in performance.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:23 PM
  #17  
Karl911
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I have run the Dunlop Race Maxx tires compared to MSC2s and they are noticably quicker. I have no times. But a comparison between Trofoe R s and Dunlops would be interesting.
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Old 01-31-2015, 10:31 PM
  #18  
skxf430
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Here are the sizes for the Trofeo R's

http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/p-zero-trofeo/
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:14 PM
  #19  
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Sam thank you.I need some track days to wear out my SC 2 tires. Hello Pirelli...
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:15 PM
  #20  
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I ran a couple of sets of Trofeo r's on my .2, they are very quick, they are meant to be run at 2 bar of pressure, which seems low, but they really came into their own at that level. Higher pressures and they felt less forgiving. I also noticed that in colder temps they were absolutely brilliant, as fast as Hoosiers that had more than 2 heat cycles. Once temps got above 70, they were just good. Really a nice tire.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:33 AM
  #21  
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Sam, looking at your pace and what you keep doing to get better and its working, you should get a Cup car. It will be a whole new level of fun.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:54 AM
  #22  
Keith Verges - Dallas
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OK that does it. I have to try a set on the MP4 to see what it will do at a MSR. GT3 will have to wait as it does not arrive for a awhile and I will likely try to find 19" wheels anyway.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:31 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by sebearstian View Post
Thank you for the great post. I will like to hear from anyone how the dunlops come into the picture.
Originally Posted by Karl911 View Post
I have run the Dunlop Race Maxx tires compared to MSC2s and they are noticably quicker. I have no times. But a comparison between Trofoe R s and Dunlops would be interesting.
I tried the Dunlops on my 997 and Cayman. Found that they're an excellent street tire, and good on track up to about 8/10ths, but tend to disintegrate when pushed harder than that, though that seemed to be quite track-dependent. I didn't get data with them, but IIRC Porsche said the lap times on the GT3 are basically the same with the Michelin and Dunlop (though maybe they kinda have to say that?).
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:54 AM
  #24  
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Thanks guys! Thanks to Kosmo for posting Harris' video, which I have totally forgotten about and to me, cements my observations.
I already have -2.8 or -2.9 camber outback. My mechanic is very hesitant to add any more because of the weight penalty on the inside shoulders in the straights, worrying about overheating and tire failure.
Regarding the pressures, I started with 29/32 hot at MSR (like what I do with the PSC2) and realized that it was way too much so at COTA, I adjusted and my best laps came with 28/29 hot on the Trofeos.
Also, I don't know how slippery COTA is in the rain but my fourth session was in the rain and it was very hairy. It wasn't pouring and on the back straight, felt like I was a millisecond away from hydroplaning at high speed. Poor grip most places. PDK shifting in sport feels like dumping the clutch at speed, bad idea in the rain. Tire pressures never got over 22 so maybe that had something to do with it as well.
Regardless, they didn't like rain. I'll update wear as I gain more info.
I would love to have a Cup car but the pain of moving it to track, mechanics, etc is preventing me. I'm simply driving the GT3 home today with zero prep except tire pressures. (I only did one day with Chin).
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Old 02-01-2015, 11:52 AM
  #25  
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^Sam- not sure that you caught my comments regarding temperature. From what others have posted, I think you have been in fairly cool <60 temps at the track. This is ideal for the Trofeo's and as I said in comparison to even Hoosiers they are fantastic. At 90 not so much and they don't have as much of an advantage. Just a fair warning as the summer tracking season come out, another investment in Trofeo's may not play out as satisfying. Your mileage may vary, but thought I would give another fair warning.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:00 PM
  #26  
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Sam yet again thanks for the data points. Really valuable stuff.

Ive been playing with the MPSC2 pressures at the track having made plenty of mistakes so far like letting them down too low too early on a cold day that got wetter and wetter! What I have learnt with the mpsc2 tyres is they enjoy more pressure than the R comps Im using on the 993 (Hankook Z221). I believe for our tracks at recent ambient temps (28C/85F) and track temps afternoon (45C/115F) that the MPSC2 work better with hot pressures up around 32/36. Of course Im not running the negative camber you are as I only have -2.15F and -1.54R (no shims - maximum factory adjustment without affecting castor). I have found for the fronts that anywhere between 30-32 works great (medium sway bar) and the rears work well (medium sway bar) around 34-36. This may of course been down to surface type and conditions. Our tracks also have alot of elevation and camber changes. I found a noticeable difference in performance below 30 for the front (have tried 26-28) and over 34-36 rear (ran the car up to 42 in one session and got very greesy).

On the MPSC2 vs Sport Maxx I can confirm that he PAG 991 GT3 published Ring Time was on Michelin MPSC2. I have no data for the Sport Maxx as few cars done decent track miles in Europe or USA have had this fitment from factory yet.

The Trofeo R comes in the correct sizes and is a wonderful alternative. I think it definitely has the edge on track. In our group we have a 997.2 GT3 has recently moved to these and believes they are the quickest tyres hes used to date - but he had a major off (no damage this time) using them in the wet and swears that hell not use them in the wet pushing hard. Wear wise I think they are good but they will unlikely be as amazing as the MPSC2 which dont want to seem to die!

Keep the feedback coming Sam. Its good to be able to learn from others who are getting much more track time in than me (Im travelling for 3 months this summer currently in Oaxaca Mexico about to head to Puerto Escondido for a month..)
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:06 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
Of course Im not running the negative camber you are as I only have -2.15F and -1.54R (no shims - maximum factory adjustment without affecting castor).
Macca, you must be wearing the outer edges of your rear tires unevenly with only -1.54 rear camber. Is there a reason you aren't running more aggressive camber?
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:19 PM
  #28  
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Thanks for the useful info on the Trofeo R, Sam. I'm tempted to give them a try.

I don't understand why so many of the comments on this thread are focused on tread wear. In my experience with two sets of MMPSC2s on the track, they heat cycled out after 6-8 days. Still had plenty of tread, but traction was shot. I can't help but believe that the Trofeo R will also be heat cycle limited, not tread wear limited.

The above is related to track use, maybe not DD use.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:46 PM
  #29  
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Ivan & Ortho. Some good points here.

My GT3 has seen far more road miles than track miles. 6000 miles total around 10% of them track and 30% of them fast (hard and fast) road. The balance touring and general DD use. I measured up the tyres with a digital depth gauge across the face of all three tires after my last track day a few weeks ago. The inside of the tyres is still wearing about 1.3-1.5mm faster than the outside after 6000 miles and I can only put this down to the camber on the street. if you are driving more than 40% of your miles on the track i think at my settings you would be even wear. Above 40% you are correct the outside would likely be wearing quicker. All of this said Im afraid to say I believe my MPSC2 tyres are well heat cycled out now. I believe this happened before my last track day. My last track day was 85F ambient 115+F on the track and the tires did not have the grip they should have. After driving the car on these tires in European winter (sometimes below the recommended lowest temps) through to NZ summer (a hot one for us this year) and everything in between, road, track, autobahn and around town I can safely say I think they have given their best. Amazing thing is that they still have 35% tread left to give so I will run them another 2000 road miles and one hot track day just to finish them off completely before putting on a new set of MPSC2. I think if used mainly for track from what Im hearing from others and dependant on conditions and driving style we are probably talking about 6-8 track days and these babies are off just like Ivan says. Also as Ivan says the tread wear isnt such a thing by then either.

In terms of why Im only using -2.10F/-1.54R, simple really. No shims available in NZ when i set the car up (FD Motorsport have my shims now), and secondly Im still hesitant to take this car further in terms of Geo and probably wont do so immediately as Im still very much learning the cars abilities on track having come form a much different track experience (modified 993). Id say 65% of my Kms will always be fast road and DD/touring vs Track so Im concious of compromising the car for those duties. After already having compromised to some degree the 993 I still need a car that I can enjoy with my wife to tour NZ and attend the track days and which is low maintenance. Thats the beauty of this GT3 for me and I dont want to go too far too fast this time. I spend only 3 months a year in teh country I keep my toys so I dont have as much track time as others unfortunately...
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:08 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
My GT3 has seen far more road miles than track miles.
Ah. Well then that makes total sense. For some reason I thought it was the other way around.
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