GT3 values, and Chris Harris speaks marketplace
01-29-2015, 08:59 PM
#31
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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The 997 RS isn't necessarily the last of the manuals. In fact I'd put my money in the other direction based on Porsche's comments of late. Porsche buyers are ponying up for the last of the analog mechanical cars. In essence, the last of what made Porsche what it was since inception.
False again to say that Mezger made what Porsche essence is Mezger is simply not Porsche just fyi and they were selected only because at time they were struggling without any successful ready engine to be plugged so went to the market and bought one This is a patch to fix an hole not the essence
01-29-2015, 09:04 PM
#32
False again to say that Mezger made what Porsche essence is Mezger is simply not Porsche just fyi and they were selected only because at time they were struggling without any successful ready engine to be plugged so went to the market and bought one This is a patch to fix an hole not the essence
01-29-2015, 09:05 PM
#33
Ok let me take that back...let's say that when you get on a track you will see the tailpipes of other RSs with PDK. Maybe I am too competitive but even when I play a board game I am out to WIN. If the object is to take the car around the track and not post best times then I agree.
01-29-2015, 09:08 PM
#34
Look forward only. Cant change dry cement!
01-29-2015, 09:17 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
I thought the reason U. K. received fewer GT3's is because Jeremy Clarkson is an a**hole & Porsche hates him.
j/k.
I love watching Top Gear.
Was just trying to lighten the mood.
j/k.
I love watching Top Gear.
Was just trying to lighten the mood.
01-29-2015, 09:58 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
what a bunch of nonsense... I have owned many mezgers... this engine is more exciting to me in every way, sounds and drives more like a race car and more exotic than my 2011 GT3... no one is saying that mezger engines aren't great, and special... it was my license plate - MEZGER - on my last GT3. But to suggest that the new GT3 engine is all about cost reduction is just silly... like me saying that anyone driving a 993 C4S is not really driving a real air cooled Porsche because its 4 wheel drive like an SUV...just sayin....that would be nonsense... 
01-29-2015, 10:07 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
i dont know if you guys are familiar with that dudes post history but he is a massive 9a1/mezger troll. i basically gave up on the rs thread the last time he was there
01-29-2015, 10:08 PM
#39
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I must be a total weirdo.
I actually bought my GT3 to drive.
Not as an investment.
For that, I can buy tulips ...
I actually bought my GT3 to drive.
Not as an investment.
For that, I can buy tulips ...
01-29-2015, 10:32 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
The 997 RS isn't necessarily the last of the manuals. In fact I'd put my money in the other direction based on Porsche's comments of late. Porsche buyers are ponying up for the last of the analog mechanical cars. In essence, the last of what made Porsche what it was since inception.
This nonsense about the value of GT3s is tiring. They havent eclipsed their original retail price of only a few years ago in most cases and much of the increase has been due to the slow release of new GT models (991 GT3 & RS for already much discussed reasons) and of course in some cases a lack of manual ( a situation I suspect which may remedy itself to some degree over time as older GT3 owners try the new GT3 & RS when its launched).
Then take the example of a 72 911S or a 964RS or a 993 C4S or Turbo or go help us a 993RS and you will see where the real appreciation is happening in the market!!!
Many collectors feel it all went to the dogs after the 993. This thing we think we are feeling about the purity of the 996/997 GT3 is all complete BS when you dial it back to the earlier cars that actually had the same crank case numbers as the much praised GT1 the engine basis now known of as Mezger which 10 years ago was known as GT1 engine and before that not discussed at all. Having been an aircooled guy all the time I find it fascinating listening to the 996/997 croud about "purity". The cars are heavier, have PASM & ESC, gizmos & nannies less direct steering and poorer build quality by far. Plus they have water cooled engines not what the Dr intended! OMG!!!!
Funniest thing of all is having been on the board since inception and one of the first to post here and take delivery of a GT3 (14 months ago) I see many from the 997 GT3 camp here now as owners after much **** and fire slinging in the early days. A dew names pop up again from time to time, like today above which is always amusing but there is nothing new under the sun folks. Life goes on..
01-29-2015, 10:36 PM
#42
Yet twice you've came in here and trolled me in this thread alone. You haven't disputed anything I've stated with a single fact. Irony?
Last edited by destaccado; 01-29-2015 at 10:54 PM.
01-29-2015, 10:49 PM
#43
Yes hence the value increase in aircooled cars specifically long hoods!
This nonsense about the value of GT3s is tiring. They havent eclipsed their original retail price of only a few years ago in most cases and much of the increase has been due to the slow release of new GT models (991 GT3 & RS for already much discussed reasons) and of course in some cases a lack of manual ( a situation I suspect which may remedy itself to some degree over time as older GT3 owners try the new GT3 & RS when its launched).
Then take the example of a 72 911S or a 964RS or a 993 C4S or Turbo or go help us a 993RS and you will see where the real appreciation is happening in the market!!!
Many collectors feel it all went to the dogs after the 993. This thing we think we are feeling about the purity of the 996/997 GT3 is all complete BS when you dial it back to the earlier cars that actually had the same crank case numbers as the much praised GT1 the engine basis now known of as Mezger which 10 years ago was known as GT1 engine and before that not discussed at all. Having been an aircooled guy all the time I find it fascinating listening to the 996/997 croud about "purity". The cars are heavier, have PASM & ESC, gizmos & nannies less direct steering and poorer build quality by far. Plus they have water cooled engines not what the Dr intended! OMG!!!!
Funniest thing of all is having been on the board since inception and one of the first to post here and take delivery of a GT3 (14 months ago) I see many from the 997 GT3 camp here now as owners after much **** and fire slinging in the early days. A dew names pop up again from time to time, like today above which is always amusing but there is nothing new under the sun folks. Life goes on..
This nonsense about the value of GT3s is tiring. They havent eclipsed their original retail price of only a few years ago in most cases and much of the increase has been due to the slow release of new GT models (991 GT3 & RS for already much discussed reasons) and of course in some cases a lack of manual ( a situation I suspect which may remedy itself to some degree over time as older GT3 owners try the new GT3 & RS when its launched).
Then take the example of a 72 911S or a 964RS or a 993 C4S or Turbo or go help us a 993RS and you will see where the real appreciation is happening in the market!!!
Many collectors feel it all went to the dogs after the 993. This thing we think we are feeling about the purity of the 996/997 GT3 is all complete BS when you dial it back to the earlier cars that actually had the same crank case numbers as the much praised GT1 the engine basis now known of as Mezger which 10 years ago was known as GT1 engine and before that not discussed at all. Having been an aircooled guy all the time I find it fascinating listening to the 996/997 croud about "purity". The cars are heavier, have PASM & ESC, gizmos & nannies less direct steering and poorer build quality by far. Plus they have water cooled engines not what the Dr intended! OMG!!!!
Funniest thing of all is having been on the board since inception and one of the first to post here and take delivery of a GT3 (14 months ago) I see many from the 997 GT3 camp here now as owners after much **** and fire slinging in the early days. A dew names pop up again from time to time, like today above which is always amusing but there is nothing new under the sun folks. Life goes on..
...but then you bring up the 997 build quality to build quasi support for the 991? Did you forget defective motors keeping owners out of their cars for months? The lack of proper buttons being installed at the factory, other issues people have been having with the 991...I own a 991 and I would hardly call it more reliable or better built than the 997.2 it replaced regardless of personal transmission choice. If anything - it just feels like a Porsche designed to cater more towards the Asian market that's buying it in much greater numbers now than ever before and to fulfill more stringent government regulations regarding things no normal Porsche owner gives two ****s about.
The fact is - the 991 GT3 is an excellent car. The sum of its parts is pretty damn good. ...but sometimes you come over here to the 991 thread hoping to read about the RS developments and you see someone who has their mouth so far around Porsche's **** that something needs to be said before they choke to death. (I'm not referring to you)
01-30-2015, 02:17 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
So your argument is that the 997 crowd isn't driving 'pure' cars compared to the 993...Fair enough. I think everyone can draw their own line where they'd like. ...but then you bring up the 997 build quality to build quasi support for the 991? Did you forget defective motors keeping owners out of their cars for months? The lack of proper buttons being installed at the factory, other issues people have been having with the 991...I own a 991 and I would hardly call it more reliable or better built than the 997.2 it replaced regardless of personal transmission choice. If anything - it just feels like a Porsche designed to cater more towards the Asian market that's buying it in much greater numbers now than ever before and to fulfill more stringent government regulations regarding things no normal Porsche owner gives two ****s about. The fact is - the 991 GT3 is an excellent car. The sum of its parts is pretty damn good. ...but sometimes you come over here to the 991 thread hoping to read about the RS developments and you see someone who has their mouth so far around Porsche's **** that something needs to be said before they choke to death. (I'm not referring to you)
I was referring to 996/997/991 build quality vs the earlier aircooled cars. Not in terms of paint nor panel gaps more in terms of solidness and materials quality (carpet, interior finishes, door handles etc).
I have spent a lot of time in Porsche workshops and I don't put a lot of credence over mezger reliability vs 9A1 either. My Porsche main agent service guy says the 7.2 Carreras with9a1 are proving more reliable than anything yet. The 7.2 GT3 has had its fair share of engine related warranty bulletins that I can see. We have never been told officially why PAG spent 100MM on pulling 785 GT3 power units out and replacing them due to 3-4 early hour total failures of late build engines. My position on this is known. I believe it was due to assembly tool calibration. Unfortunately the part that tool was partially responsible for installing was build with very precise tolerances that the tools calibration could not reliably conform too. I believe a great deal of the engines built in the first few months were probably 100% A ok. Replacing the fastening for the component specified in the soon to be released 4.0 RS allowed greater fail safes. The rods I believe may have been replaced too. Much of this is speculation I will not lie, but I have also heard a few factory snippets enough to draw my own conclusion. Essentially this was a assembly issue compounded by a design that created unrealistic parameters. It should never have happened and I agree with you this is a reflection of where PAG are headed as a volume company with a growing model portfolio and a heavy management hand.
01-30-2015, 04:29 AM
#45
Those who have the 991 GT3 will, for the most part, side with the 9A1. That much has been clear for a while. There was a a lot of back and forth on the consolodated RS thread about the Mezger and the GT3 9A1. The bottom line is that the Mezger is raced, used in the 991 Cup and 991 RSR, and the 9A1 isn't. Why? No one really knows for sure, but logic does say the 9A1 may not have been up to par.
End of story, the "GT1" engine won Le Mans, and the 9A1 has so far won nothing. The 9A1 engine is a lot lighter than the GT1 engine. It's more efficient, better low end torque, but still not good enough to race.
And as far as the market goes, the values of manual cars for non GT cars are lower than their comparable PDK versions. The GT1 engine does have a pull on the market.
End of story, the "GT1" engine won Le Mans, and the 9A1 has so far won nothing. The 9A1 engine is a lot lighter than the GT1 engine. It's more efficient, better low end torque, but still not good enough to race.
And as far as the market goes, the values of manual cars for non GT cars are lower than their comparable PDK versions. The GT1 engine does have a pull on the market.