kencollinsjr

The rationale for the limitations on PTS builds are just simply based on lean operations. The paint shop is one of the most time-consuming processes in the whole production line and the PTS process introduces myriad complexities: 1) change-out time for paint colors - every time they change colors, they have to clear the lines, change the equipment slightly, and 2) sometimes different pigments will cure / dry in slightly different ways, and 3) they are now using water-based paint technology on colors that were originally based on solvent-based technology, so the experimentation phase for creating a water-based equivalent for every color isn't as easy as it sounds. Lots of trial & error chemistry involved.

I would love for every color of the rainbow to be involved and Main Street filled with jelly-bean colored GT3s just as much as the rest of you. However, the PTS process is driven by the fact that variety = insanity in a production line. Especially when variety equals changeovers and unproven precedent applications, which could require re-do's.

Just my 2 cents...

- Former paint industry nerd

SamFromTX

Well, this is the first time I am able to understand why a PTS is not as simple as mix a little blue with a little yellow to get green! Thank you for clarifying the complexity of PTS.

Z356

I am not a former industry nerd, but I have travelled extensively to many auto manufacturing plants in Europe. And I have seen with my own eyes the incredibly short time it takes for the paint robots to clear the hose lines and change colors from one car to another in the paint booths. The actual change might take seconds...

The ONLY place I have seen this done is at the three BMW factories I have visited (Munich, Dingolfing, Regensburg) where they actually let you see the process as a visitor from special glass enclosures that allow a view to some of their paint facilities. Every other manufacturer I have visited (Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Morgan) does not allow you anywhere near their paint facilities!


From what I know, changing paint colors (to a PTS color, for example) would not be a problem for the paint robots at Porsche any more than for them to change from 'Guards Red' to 'Jet Black'...assuming they have the PTS paint at hand and in a container where it can be integrated into the paint process.

No, the problem is that apparently NOT every painted component that goes into a model might be painted & assembled in Zuffenhausen...or goes through the state-of-the-art automated paint booths at Porsche. In this advanced world of 'Just-in-Time' and 'Just-in-Sequence' logistics at PAG, some of the parts going into some models may be painted & assembled together OUTSIDE of PAG, from an independent vendor of certain key pieces. For example, it could be bumpers, painted wheels, painted seat backs, painted interior trim pieces, etc. And coordinating different PTS colors for those parts done outside the factory that are not within the limited standard & metallic palette currently offered (which these sub-contractors have mastered through everyday experience with those colors) is a difficult task for both the vendors & 'Porsche Exclusive'...plus the logistics of 'just-in-time' and 'just-in-sequence' involved in that process. That is a huge factor in why PTS is 'difficult' for series production at Porsche.

The first delay is feasibility and approval of color. That could take months. The next delay is ordering the paint for the PTS order. Under the current rules, there is a minimum delay of three months from putting the order into the system and production of a PTS vehicle - even assuming you choose an already approved color like 'Riviera Blue'!

In your particular case <3mph, you were long ago programed to have a PTS car build in November and the factory has had at least 3 months to order your special PTS paint. So there is no reason why you shouldn't get it built that month! The folks like you that long ago got approval for PTS on their allocation build month, as long as it was an approved color and there was a lead time of at least three months, should be getting their PTS cars built...according to my conversations last week with Sascha Glaeser.

The folks that might have thought they had a PTS allocation (because their dealer told them so) but never actually got it confirmed by PAG/PCNA might be the ones in trouble. The order had to be in the system, PTS color needed to be approved and the PTS paint ordered by PAG at least three months in advance. If any one of those things is missing, you have no assurance to get a PTS car even if you think (or know) you have a gt3 allocation.


I have been trying to reason with 'Porsche Exclusive' for years to be more transparent in their process so that THEIR customers understand the issues & rules involved in the ordering PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive' options like deviating stitching, CXX special requests which are not on the configurator. I have put a lot of time and effort in these 'Custom Ordering' threads trying to explain the system for those here at Rennlist. The folks at 'Porsche Exclusive' have told me they don't read any of these threads and they don't care what is written in the forums. Why I bother to keep posting is even a puzzle to me!

The fact is that they have chosen to ignore those arguments that I have made to them in person since I started posting about this subject in 2012. And as evident from comments of others on this thread, 'Porsche Exclusive' has made little, or no progress, in making the process work more effectively for themselves, their dealers or their customers. I myself bought a competitor's car rather than order a new PTS Porsche, which would have been my preference. I voted with my feet and I posted about my frustration with them back in late 2012. But this is a marque I have deeply loved & cared for since 1973, when I first discovered a love of automobiles. And ultimately, I decided to continue posting because forum members asked me to help them understand the system...even if PCNA was not doing much to assist any of us in that task!

The Future - There is a new 'Porsche Exclusive' manager for the USA coming soon to replace Sascha Glaeser who is now in charge of the 'Porsche Experience Centers' being constructed in Los Angeles and Atlanta. That new manager is a woman currently employed by Porsche in Zuffenhausen and with some background in 'Porsche Exclusive' in Germany. Melissa Witek will continue in her job but now based in Atlanta (rather than NYC), where the new manager will reside. The former offices in Beverly Hills of Sascha Glaeser will be occupied by Matthew Henry, the newest member of the 'Porsche Exclusive' team. He came from 'Product Planning' in Atlanta. In a year or so, those offices will be moved to the site of the 'Porsche Experience Center' in Los Angeles. They are also studying the possibility of adding other members to the 'Porsche Exclusive' team in the US...so the program is deemed successful and they may invest even more resources into it.

I share with many of you a frustration with the an attitude I have observed now more than ever at PAG/PCNA. That of 'we know best, we will continue to do it our way and if you don't like, we don't give a damn'. From my experience in business & life in general, I can tell you that is not a recipe for success. And it saddens me. It truly does.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS Last week Sascha Glaeser admitted to me that one of the reasons that PTS was now so popular and that they were having problems in meeting the demand was the very fact that my threads had raised the visible profile of PTS in this market! And he thank me. How ironic is that...

.Photo of Sascha Glaeser at the Porsche Zentrum at Quail last Wednesday!

.

Macca

Eduardo. Another brilliant thread my friend. Its guys like you who add such incredible depth of knowledge to boards such as this and although I am unfortunately not a PTS customer I always enjoy reading your posts and always very impressed at how well you are networked into the PAG/automotic organisation both in the USA and Germany.

Bill_C4S

+PTS

Well put Macca...very well put

Eduardo - many many thanks for pulling back the veil on the PCNA PTS process (and i assume the broadly akin process for RoW)...definitely helps to understand how to line up the ducks as I try to get a PTS 991 GT3 RS...which - short of buying a 918 - may well prove a fools errand...but hey..optimism is a view

<3mph

Thanks Eduardo. Insightful, fascinating reading and just the right mix of facts and editorial for context.

Z356

Thank you gentlemen for your kind words.

**********

Let me repost something I just wrote in 997TTMeteor's thread which has a bearing on the 'difficulties' that PTS could pose for the manufacturer and we often ignore in our conversations on the subject. It has some bearing on the subject of this thread.

The bumpers are not only painted separately...they even perhaps by-passed Zuffenhausen's paint booth altogether and were painted by an outside vendor & delivered fully assembled for 'just-in-time' and 'just-in-sequence' at the final assembly line at Porsche!

As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical & financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense. The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money, on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition. That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion.

Editorial note: My problem with 'Porsche Exclusive' & 'PTS' is not it's cost. I think that is more than reasonable for the added labor/coordination involved relative to the unique product you get in return. My problem is it is the way it's run...especially here in North America!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

Photo One: OP's gt3
Photo Two: Macca's gt3
Photo Three: PTS color code z10 'orange' 997 Turbo with NOT fully matching plastic vs metal paint coloring which I photographed in 2012 at the Historics. That is why some colors are not approved for PTS or are discontinued from production if something like this is discovered with time - to avoid warranty complaints & warranty claims down the line for the manufacturer!
.

montoya

I tried to talk to Melissa at the Zentrum on Friday but her and the CEO were in lock down closing a sale of 918. I wanted to make sure my PTS was secure, which now I question and to find out about the CXX paint for wing and mirror.... Looks like another long period of phone and emails- she is hard to reach.

jfr0317

Thanks again for the PTS info, Eduardo! We all appreciate your expertise and passion on the subject!

Saludos, amigo!

Warren99

Dealer called today and said no PTS this year. They also said Porsche is not doing any PTS GT3s during Q1 of 2015. Disappointed but looking on the brightside, I'll get my car sooner (December build) and I just saved $5,500. Going with my original choice - racing yellow.

amfp

Racing yellow is one of my favorite colors. Regarding PTS, I confirmed they will do the next run in Feb. Or maybe for you, the Feb run is already booked. To me, racing yellow is a smart decision then rolling the dice for PTS availability.

mooty

say, you have december build. but pts is suppose to be in february...
so what do you do?

djcxxx

The November PTS slots were filled so my November GT3 build was moved to Feb 15, the next cycle of PTS Porsche could accomodate my build. I've seen the paperwork and its in the system. So now I wait. I have a leased C4S to pass the time.

amfp

At least with me, I have an allocation earlier than Dec, and that allocation will be held until PTS sample is available in Feb. I found out just bc someone... has say a Dec build, and PTS sample is not available until Feb, they do not lose their slot. Meaning having to wait for another later allocation in 2015. Of course, as you well know, with Porsche or any manufacture, predicting the future is fluid. So what is "locked in" now can change/slip.

Jon70

djcxxx and luvair,
I have a Nov build and was specifically told the allocation date cannot be moved. I'd delay the build if I could for PTS. How did you get this done? Who does the dealer need to speak to? I'm ordering from a small dealer and I don't think they have much experience with PTS.