To PCCB or not PCCB
12-27-2015, 07:15 PM
#106
Former Vendor
The rate of wear street vs track is SIGNIFICANT, so I am not sure PCCB will
last "the lifetime of the car" on the street but they will last a very long time!
AFAIK they dont actually wear out faster than steels on track, but once they wear out the replacement cost is significant... hence the reluctance to track them ...
last "the lifetime of the car" on the street but they will last a very long time!
AFAIK they dont actually wear out faster than steels on track, but once they wear out the replacement cost is significant... hence the reluctance to track them ...
The wear rate of the PCCBs is much more accelerated under higher temperatures (550-600C plus avg disc temp causes an exponential rate of "wear"). The main factor is temperature and as such, heavier track use would cause elevated disc operating temps.
That and steel is cheaper to replace when you do need to replace them.
It's worth noting the Brembo steel racing disc setup for 997 GT3 / Turbo is priced including the RT endurance pads. All the other setups don't include pads so the initial cost is a little more.
The 991 PCCBs are a different newer material and are a bit more durable than the 997 material. But there are no real good options to replace the larger 991 PCCB discs (410 mm front, 390 mm rear). We just recommend buying the 991 OE Iron F & R calipers and moving to iron for the track if you have PCCBs. The calipers are different on the 991 PCCB and 991 Iron so you can't reuse the calipers like on the 997 due to the larger disc sizes.
We work closely with Brembo / RT for our braking needs so we can get direct technical information on their brakes from them.
12-27-2015, 07:22 PM
#107
12-27-2015, 07:51 PM
#108
Race Director
PCCB and Iron wear about the same rate on regular street use so the PCCB's should last a long time on the street.
The wear rate of the PCCBs is much more accelerated under higher temperatures (550-600C plus avg disc temp causes an exponential rate of "wear"). The main factor is temperature and as such, heavier track use would cause elevated disc operating temps.
That and steel is cheaper to replace when you do need to replace them.
It's worth noting the Brembo steel racing disc setup for 997 GT3 / Turbo is priced including the RT endurance pads. All the other setups don't include pads so the initial cost is a little more.
The 991 PCCBs are a different newer material and are a bit more durable than the 997 material. But there are no real good options to replace the larger 991 PCCB discs (410 mm front, 390 mm rear). We just recommend buying the 991 OE Iron F & R calipers and moving to iron for the track if you have PCCBs. The calipers are different on the 991 PCCB and 991 Iron so you can't reuse the calipers like on the 997 due to the larger disc sizes.
We work closely with Brembo / RT for our braking needs so we can get direct technical information on their brakes from them.
The wear rate of the PCCBs is much more accelerated under higher temperatures (550-600C plus avg disc temp causes an exponential rate of "wear"). The main factor is temperature and as such, heavier track use would cause elevated disc operating temps.
That and steel is cheaper to replace when you do need to replace them.
It's worth noting the Brembo steel racing disc setup for 997 GT3 / Turbo is priced including the RT endurance pads. All the other setups don't include pads so the initial cost is a little more.
The 991 PCCBs are a different newer material and are a bit more durable than the 997 material. But there are no real good options to replace the larger 991 PCCB discs (410 mm front, 390 mm rear). We just recommend buying the 991 OE Iron F & R calipers and moving to iron for the track if you have PCCBs. The calipers are different on the 991 PCCB and 991 Iron so you can't reuse the calipers like on the 997 due to the larger disc sizes.
We work closely with Brembo / RT for our braking needs so we can get direct technical information on their brakes from them.
IIRC, he stated that the latest PCCB's had an expected life of 3-4 times that of the stock cast iron rotors in normal use. He also said each PCCB rotor took 30 days to manufacture, which may at least partly explain their cost. I think I'm remembering correctly, but maybe one of the other attendees (Nick? Rob?) could chime in to confirm or deny. In any event, it was very interesting to examine the two types of rotor on display side be side; the weight difference is striking when you are holding them in your hands.
12-27-2015, 10:23 PM
#109
One think I have noted with this debate and when talking about weight, is everyone focuses on unsprung weight... this is also a direct weight reduction of the car as a whole which in its self reduces braking disitances, acceleration times and wear and tear on tyres, dampers, bushes etc
A lot of form members sink LOTs of money into lighter 'stuff' and removing other 'stuff'.
A lot of form members sink LOTs of money into lighter 'stuff' and removing other 'stuff'.
. I think it makes no sense to spec a car with this option here.
08-12-2016, 06:17 PM
#112
For me the PCCB are a very controversial option. I still cannot make sense of the extra cost to spec them (8000eur in Europe) let alone the potential cost of replacing them prematurely due to a prang or a stone. Most specialists agree the iron discs are best for heavy tracking, yet the vast majority are sold with PCCB. I now have an opportunity to swap my car with irons for a new one with PCCB (and some other nonsense options like the track app and the Lithium battery) and I really cannot make up my mind. It's clear they last way longer than the ones on the 997, but on the other hand owners seem to spend a lot of time worrying about them. I guess the moment a really economical and proven refurbishing process is available (not sure what the story is currently with Sicom) the balance will swing in favour of the PCCB. At least I have a whole weekend to decide :-)
08-13-2016, 02:37 PM
#113
If you do nothing but track your car then steel would be better cost option.
I, myself, feel the weight difference, drive mostly on the street and like the no dust effect. For me the feel alone is worth it and price is what it is.......
If I did mostly track I would just order stock iron and upgrade to Movit later.
I, myself, feel the weight difference, drive mostly on the street and like the no dust effect. For me the feel alone is worth it and price is what it is.......
If I did mostly track I would just order stock iron and upgrade to Movit later.
08-13-2016, 05:49 PM
#114
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2010
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The weight savings are ~40lb unsprung, which is roughly equivalent to removing 120lb from the car. If Porsche made the replacement cost the same as the option in the first place (~$9,000), it would be a no brainier, everyone would have them.
08-13-2016, 07:12 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
There seems to be no difference in acceleration or vmax on the track between the carbon and steel brakes. The choice of pads and alternative rotors (slotted, j hook etc) makes steel an easy choice for the track. If PvCB were cheaper to replace would be more popular...
08-13-2016, 08:55 PM
#116
Race Car
No wonder my 997S with PCCB feels more agile than almost every 997 example I drove.
10-17-2023, 03:45 PM
#118
Hello 7 year old thread!!!
Paint those calipers! Do more track days! Have fun man!!!
Paint those calipers! Do more track days! Have fun man!!!
