Why am I being denied the European Delivery? - First Topic Post
#31
Rennlist Member
Eduardo, I would have sworn that we received one free airfare in '84. I remember staying gratis at the Hotel am Schlossgarten in Stuttgart that first trip which was also our first visit to Europe. But now that you question it, I'm questioning myself; it seems you have a great memory for this kind of thing.
I've done 3 Porsche tourist deliveries, and one each with Volvo, Mercedes, and BMW so it's possible I'm confusing one with the other as some of them most definitely included airfare. I do remember in '84 that pictures (no flash) were allowed on parts of the factory tour; somewhere I have slides to prove that, at least! Great stuff from the '55 brochure, BTW....
Best,
Mike
I've done 3 Porsche tourist deliveries, and one each with Volvo, Mercedes, and BMW so it's possible I'm confusing one with the other as some of them most definitely included airfare. I do remember in '84 that pictures (no flash) were allowed on parts of the factory tour; somewhere I have slides to prove that, at least! Great stuff from the '55 brochure, BTW....
Best,
Mike
To the OP - push back HARD. And as Mike suggested, I'd pay the $3k out of pocket just to make it happen. I bought a 911 on credit card once, and to make that happen needed to pay the transaction fees...
-B
#32
Rennlist Member
#33
So if my dealer is selling me a GT3 at MSRP, and then decides to charge $3,000 on top of that if I want european delivery, they are going against the directions of Porsche themselves?
I'm going to have an interesting talk with my dealer this week. I don't want to pay $3,000 that I don't have too, however they did find me an allocation at the last minute.
I'm going to have an interesting talk with my dealer this week. I don't want to pay $3,000 that I don't have too, however they did find me an allocation at the last minute.
To give you a sense of why all of these programs got started, excuse me if I have to delve into a little history of the European Delivery at Porsche. From my many conversations with old timers in Porsche 356 circles, I have concluded that the impetus for the European Delivery Programs developed within West German economic planners that were desperately trying to come up with new ways to help West German economic recovery after WWII. Not only did West Germany needed to find new overseas clients for its re-emerging auto industry, but Germans needed to encourage international travel to the homeland. Of course, the principal purpose for the latter was reaping the financial benefits of tourism. Foreigners needed to know that West Germany was no longer 'bombed out" and in ruins. They were rebuilding a flourishing tourism industry to compete with those of France, Italy and Britain for the traveling tourists, mainly North & South American at the time.
But equally important, Germans hoped that the inter-action with foreigners would help transform its international 'political' reputation after the bad press generated by the war & its 'ancien' Nationalist Socialist regime. By the mid-fities, West Germany had established a thriving democracy and the government was anxious to have that fact known and experienced by as many foreigners as possible, especially Americans who held the reins of political power and wealth after WWII. As a result, the West German government gave its auto manufacturers a monetary incentive (probably tax related) for each German car sold & delivered to a foreigner in Germany.
The ED program was a great success and became part of the myth now known as the 'Wirtschaftswunder' or German Economic Miracle, the successful era of Chancellor Konrad Adenauer and his savvy Economic Minister at the time, Ludwig Erhard. In the early days, no auto maker made better use of marketing the benefits & savings of the European Delivery Program than tiny Porsche. Bill Sholar, founder of the Porsche Club of America, started putting together 'Treffens' in the late fifties that organized factory tour & European deliveries of 356's to its members. Sometimes fifty and more 356s at a time were factory delivered to these Americans arriving via a charter flight to Stuttgart!
As the German car industry matured & prospered, and the peaceful & democratic reputation of West Germany was established in the world beyond reproach, the favorable tax treatments or incentives were perhaps reduced by the German government. In addition, US Custom change the rules so that its import tax on a vehicles with travel mileage was not different from those with zero or few miles. Yet, regardless these measures which limited the advantages of ED to the manufacturers, BMW and Mercedes have never stopped offering substantial savings on their European Delivery Programs! Porsche, on the other hand, stopped offering them altogether (certain years) or charged a premium to their customers for the service (as at present).
Lets be specific about the true cost to the German auto manufacturer for European Delivery. The sea-borne shipping from Germany to North America remains a constant, regardless ED. The additional costs involve providing registration and insurance, plus getting the car from the drop-off locations (used to be Harms, the freight forwarder. Now is another similar company) to Bremerhaven Port. And the auto companies have made some cut-backs in this area. The registration & insurance used to be for one month. It has now been reduced in most programs to 14, 15 or 16 days (although you can pay for additional time). The one night stay at a hotel and taxi voucher to the factory is not that significant, but is something extra that they normally offer.
I assume that there is still some incentive from the German government to the German auto industry that helps fund the additional costs for the European Delivery Programs at BMW. This program is available for all other makers too - Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW. Yet only a few have the mind-set (marketing benefit down the road for the goodwill generated) or the physical resources to profit from it. Mercedes has a luxurious ED facility at their principal Sindelfingen factory outside Stuttgart (photo 1). BMW has just built their magnificent BMW Welt in Munich. They are both geared for European Delivery to Americans, although their facilities primary job is to deliver Mercedes and BMW's to their European customers! In Europe, customers placed orders at dealers but often take delivery at the car factories. Other manufacturers are gearing up for ED. Audi's US ED program has just recently started at their vast Ingolstadt Forum (photo 2)!
Porsche, on the other hand, has a relatively cramped vehicle delivery area at Zuffenhausen, which can barely can accommodate factory deliveries to Germans and other EU citizens that request it (photo 3 of its entrance). Its upstairs delivery area can hold very limited number of cars per day! This is probably one of the principal reasons why Porsche is not really pushing its ED program. They don't have the physical space to make European Delivery to Americans a success at the present time. That might change as they acquire more space across the tracks from the new Porsche Museum. But for the time being, this space limitation is probably the single biggest drawback to expanding their European Delivery Program! When they do, I expect they will offer greater incentives to create more demand for it. Even at an extra expense to you as the customer, European Delivery is a 'must do' for every Porsche enthusiast at least once in your lifetime!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Photos taken during my recent auto manufacturers tour in April, 2013!
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#35
Rennlist Member
#37
Burning Brakes
I only was able to get my GT3 as a European delivery. The dealer had already sold their entire allocations when I gave them a deposit. I specifically requested European delivery and when Porsche came back they realized their European delivery allocations were over and above their normal allocations. I believe dealers get a certain amount of European allocations for any cars they choose. I don't believe European delivery is a normal request by customers.
#39
Advanced
Thread Starter
Thank you very much for all of the great input and knowledge that all of you have shared. I will use this information when speaking with the General or Regional Manager. However, I do wish that the dealer had been honest and up front with me, like they were with Drifting. I could have then made a decision to pay or not pay the $8000 out-of-pocket and not been given some BS story that it is too much of a liability, where the GT3 can get damaged while it’s in my possession and/or in transition back to the states.
As a business owner, I agree 100% with Brett at Sonnen Porsche. Since I am already a customer of theirs at the Land Rover Dealership, you would think that as a local customer, who runs a local business, that they would want to strengthen our business relationship and not be greedy and untruthful.
Thank you, and I look forward to reporting back to you guys with a positive outcome, now that I have the knowledge needed to move forward regarding my approach with the ED.
Jim
As a business owner, I agree 100% with Brett at Sonnen Porsche. Since I am already a customer of theirs at the Land Rover Dealership, you would think that as a local customer, who runs a local business, that they would want to strengthen our business relationship and not be greedy and untruthful.
Thank you, and I look forward to reporting back to you guys with a positive outcome, now that I have the knowledge needed to move forward regarding my approach with the ED.
Jim
#40
Drifting
I am in the same situation. Porsche denied my Euro Delivery request. I have a Turbo Cab allocation and the request was made above the 12 week time frame, but Porsche claims they are "too busy that week". My dealer is actually great, really working hard to make arrangements for me, but so far the problem had been on Porsches side.
Sad, I really wanted to take delivery on my vacation! We are trying to explain that I don't need the whole tour, lunch and hotel treatment. I just took the factory tour a few months ago, and this will be my 3rd 991 so I don't need a tour of my new car. I simply want to sign the papers and drive to Baden Baden!
Sad, I really wanted to take delivery on my vacation! We are trying to explain that I don't need the whole tour, lunch and hotel treatment. I just took the factory tour a few months ago, and this will be my 3rd 991 so I don't need a tour of my new car. I simply want to sign the papers and drive to Baden Baden!
#41
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Belmont Shore in Long Beach CA
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I encouraged all of my GT3 clients to do the European delivery even though it does cost the dealership and me as well. I do more Euro deliveries than any other salesman in the country and the postcards I get from the happy clients more than make up for the small loss of profit and my commission. We do not get another GT3 allocation on top however just a Turbo or Turbo S....not terrible....
#42
Disden, I think Eduardo may have a point about limited physical space. When we did our ED a few weeks ago, the room where cars were actually picked up was completely jam packed. I can't see how they could have added additional customers' cars that day. Perhaps Porsche does have limits on how many ED cars can be processed at a time and are almost always at capacity. FWIW, we requested ED about a half year in advance and were successful. It's unfortunate that you may not be able to go since it's an amazing experience to be able to drive through Europe with your car. Baden-baden is quite special, and the Black forest too. Perhaps someone will cancel, or perhaps you can see about adjusting your travel dates a little in hopes that a spot will come free? May be tricky though, particularly if it's in peak tourism season. Good luck!
#43
Drifting
Disden, I think Eduardo may have a point about limited physical space. When we did our ED a few weeks ago, the room where cars were actually picked up was completely jam packed. I can't see how they could have added additional customers' cars that day. Perhaps Porsche does have limits on how many ED cars can be processed at a time and are almost always at capacity. FWIW, we requested ED about a half year in advance and were successful. It's unfortunate that you may not be able to go since it's an amazing experience to be able to drive through Europe with your car. Baden-baden is quite special, and the Black forest too. Perhaps someone will cancel, or perhaps you can see about adjusting your travel dates a little in hopes that a spot will come free? May be tricky though, particularly if it's in peak tourism season. Good luck!
#44
Rennlist Member
To OP: You need a new dealer. This one lies.
They also offer additional insured time in Europe, as long as its less than 6 months.
I doubt I will ever buy a new car unless its ED.
Make a nice summer out of it and blast through Europe for 3-4 months (A week or 2 at the time) is the only way I can justify the depreciation over a CPO.
Mercedes has the best programs I think 7% off MSRP including options, BMW I was told by one dealer (Probably wrong) that only the base MSRP qualifies, but not the options. My M3 will be 62K msrp and $85K with options, so I am looking to see what Mercedes comes up with for a C63 and when.
Audi's website is not clear, You have to inquire but there isn't an Audi that I am in the market for.
Porsche gives the least, no discount, no airfare but better than the $4600 they wanted to charge me for ED of my 2010RS. It was built in Feb 2010 and there was 2' of snow at the Ring at that time, so I cancelled.
They also offer additional insured time in Europe, as long as its less than 6 months.
I doubt I will ever buy a new car unless its ED.
Make a nice summer out of it and blast through Europe for 3-4 months (A week or 2 at the time) is the only way I can justify the depreciation over a CPO.
Mercedes has the best programs I think 7% off MSRP including options, BMW I was told by one dealer (Probably wrong) that only the base MSRP qualifies, but not the options. My M3 will be 62K msrp and $85K with options, so I am looking to see what Mercedes comes up with for a C63 and when.
Audi's website is not clear, You have to inquire but there isn't an Audi that I am in the market for.
Porsche gives the least, no discount, no airfare but better than the $4600 they wanted to charge me for ED of my 2010RS. It was built in Feb 2010 and there was 2' of snow at the Ring at that time, so I cancelled.
#45
disden: aha, I see. I know there is an option to drop off the car at an alternative location (neither of the 2 usual ones in Germany) for a fee. Perhaps it can be picked up from an Italian location too? PM'd you the email for the ED specialist.