View Poll Results: PCCB or Steel Brakes on your 991 GT3?
PCCBs, the car is for street driving only.
150
22.76%
PCCBs, and I'll track it that way too.
148
22.46%
PCCB, but buying steel rotors or system for track.
44
6.68%
Steel brakes, it's the way I roll.
317
48.10%
Voters: 659. You may not vote on this poll
PCCB or Steel on your 991 GT3?
07-27-2014, 03:11 PM
#137
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PCCB or no PCCB & that is the question I have been asking myself. PCCB's advantages are lower weight & brake dust free. As far as stopping power is concerned I don't think & I maybe wrong here there is not much difference as Porsche is very well known when it comes to stopping power. Coming back to lower weight I doubt if I can really feel the difference in weight difference as I don't claim to be an expert driver. I have driven both the 991 GT3 & TTS equipped with PCCB on track. Honestly speaking I can't really tell if it stops better than steel. If I'm not lazy enuf to clean the wheels & enjoy cleaning my pride & joy then brake dust is not an issue. I think at the end of the day is just a question of whether you are willing to spend so much for the PCCB. Also is it true that PCCB is not covered by warranty?
With the money that you can spend on the PCCB wouldn't it be better to take up a couple of individual Porsche Driving Course?
With the money that you can spend on the PCCB wouldn't it be better to take up a couple of individual Porsche Driving Course?
07-27-2014, 04:48 PM
#138
Race Director
PCCB or no PCCB & that is the question I have been asking myself. PCCB's advantages are lower weight & brake dust free. As far as stopping power is concerned I don't think & I maybe wrong here there is not much difference as Porsche is very well known when it comes to stopping power. Coming back to lower weight I doubt if I can really feel the difference in weight difference as I don't claim to be an expert driver. I have driven both the 991 GT3 & TTS equipped with PCCB on track. Honestly speaking I can't really tell if it stops better than steel. If I'm not lazy enuf to clean the wheels & enjoy cleaning my pride & joy then brake dust is not an issue. I think at the end of the day is just a question of whether you are willing to spend so much for the PCCB. Also is it true that PCCB is not covered by warranty?
With the money that you can spend on the PCCB wouldn't it be better to take up a couple of individual Porsche Driving Course?
With the money that you can spend on the PCCB wouldn't it be better to take up a couple of individual Porsche Driving Course?
Just musing here, but I find the argument about weight interesting. I've read plenty of posts from people bragging about their new big-dollar lightweight wheels that save 3 or 4 pounds each, and how they can feel the difference in acceleration or handling. But save 8 pounds or so a wheel with PCCB's and all of a sudden saving that much un-sprung weight is insignificant.
I think it just goes to show that we tend to find ways to justify how we do or don't spend our money.
07-27-2014, 05:28 PM
#139
Burning Brakes
"noun, plural: the process of making the hopelessly unaffordable seem unequivocally financially logical. See also; self-denial, head in sand, massive balloon"
cf: http://www.shotdeadinthehead.com/pis...s-t-shirt.html
08-01-2014, 02:10 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
I did it for clean wheels and lighter weight. I had a 2007 GT3RS, and when I changed from stock wheels to identical size but lighter Kinesis 1-piece forged wheels along with PCCB, boy did I feel the difference even at moderate speeds in the canyons. The car stopped way earlier than before and the car behind me got so close I was stunned. I had to recalibrate my senses and brake later from there on. I want my GT3 (being the highest overall-performing street Porsche available now) to have the best spec and best possible performance possible, and thus PCCB was a given.
After all, my 458 came with ceramics as standard (all Ferraris since 2008 has ceramics standard). I think it is the best possible street brakes with money not being a factor. On the track, it should still outperform all steel brakes except that it will cost a lot more to replace after heavy track use.
After all, my 458 came with ceramics as standard (all Ferraris since 2008 has ceramics standard). I think it is the best possible street brakes with money not being a factor. On the track, it should still outperform all steel brakes except that it will cost a lot more to replace after heavy track use.
08-01-2014, 02:11 PM
#141
Rennlist Member
It's not true that PCCB's aren't covered by warranty. Also, I don't mind cleaning my pride and joy but having wheels that look dirty again after 30 miles of driving is annoying.
Just musing here, but I find the argument about weight interesting. I've read plenty of posts from people bragging about their new big-dollar lightweight wheels that save 3 or 4 pounds each, and how they can feel the difference in acceleration or handling. But save 8 pounds or so a wheel with PCCB's and all of a sudden saving that much un-sprung weight is insignificant.
I think it just goes to show that we tend to find ways to justify how we do or don't spend our money.
Just musing here, but I find the argument about weight interesting. I've read plenty of posts from people bragging about their new big-dollar lightweight wheels that save 3 or 4 pounds each, and how they can feel the difference in acceleration or handling. But save 8 pounds or so a wheel with PCCB's and all of a sudden saving that much un-sprung weight is insignificant.
I think it just goes to show that we tend to find ways to justify how we do or don't spend our money.
08-01-2014, 08:02 PM
#142
Rennlist Member
on this side of the pond....its termed Man-Maths "noun, plural: the process of making the hopelessly unaffordable seem unequivocally financially logical. See also; self-denial, head in sand, massive balloon" cf: http://www.shotdeadinthehead.com/pis...s-t-shirt.html
"noun, plural: the process of making the hopelessly unaffordable seem unequivocally financially logical. See also; self-denial, head in sand, massive balloon" cf: http://www.shotdeadinthehead.com/pis...s-t-shirt.html
08-03-2014, 01:27 AM
#143
Rennlist Member
Just found out from the article in Excellence magazine that the PCCB is 40 lbs lighter than the steel ones! 40 lbs less in unstrung weight. Wow! That totally makes it worthwhile for me on a car like this.
08-03-2014, 01:37 AM
#144
Wow, really?!?! That seems like a much greater weight savings than precious gens of PCCB?
08-03-2014, 01:54 AM
#145
Race Director
I don't know which Excellence article Terence is referring to so maybe they've measured in real life. It's just that sometimes Porsche's marketing guys haven't caught up with the latest info, as we've seen from some of the mistakes on the website. It would be nice if we had actual weights of the two different rotors for a valid comparison.
08-03-2014, 02:06 AM
#146
Nordschleife Master
Just musing here, but I find the argument about weight interesting. I've read plenty of posts from people bragging about their new big-dollar lightweight wheels that save 3 or 4 pounds each, and how they can feel the difference in acceleration or handling. But save 8 pounds or so a wheel with PCCB's and all of a sudden saving that much un-sprung weight is insignificant.
I think it just goes to show that we tend to find ways to justify how we do or don't spend our money.
I think it just goes to show that we tend to find ways to justify how we do or don't spend our money.
I did it for clean wheels and lighter weight. I had a 2007 GT3RS, and when I changed from stock wheels to identical size but lighter Kinesis 1-piece forged wheels along with PCCB, boy did I feel the difference even at moderate speeds in the canyons. The car stopped way earlier than before and the car behind me got so close I was stunned. I had to recalibrate my senses and brake later from there on. I want my GT3 (being the highest overall-performing street Porsche available now) to have the best spec and best possible performance possible, and thus PCCB was a given.
After all, my 458 came with ceramics as standard (all Ferraris since 2008 has ceramics standard). I think it is the best possible street brakes with money not being a factor. On the track, it should still outperform all steel brakes except that it will cost a lot more to replace after heavy track use.
After all, my 458 came with ceramics as standard (all Ferraris since 2008 has ceramics standard). I think it is the best possible street brakes with money not being a factor. On the track, it should still outperform all steel brakes except that it will cost a lot more to replace after heavy track use.
https://rennlist.com/forums/11501283-post103.html
We've discussed this before. Porsche has claimed a 10 lb savings per corner with PCCBs in the past. The question is, when comparing the stock 380mm cast iron 991 GT3 rotor to the new 3rd generation 410mm ceramic ones, does the larger ceramic rotor eat into that weight difference, or is it still 10 lbs? Doing a little back of the napkin math, the assumption was that the difference might be down to around 8 lbs, which is still a lot.
I don't know which Excellence article Terence is referring to so maybe they've measured in real life. It's just that sometimes Porsche's marketing guys haven't caught up with the latest info, as we've seen from some of the mistakes on the website. It would be nice if we had actual weights of the two different rotors for a valid comparison.
I don't know which Excellence article Terence is referring to so maybe they've measured in real life. It's just that sometimes Porsche's marketing guys haven't caught up with the latest info, as we've seen from some of the mistakes on the website. It would be nice if we had actual weights of the two different rotors for a valid comparison.
08-03-2014, 02:08 AM
#147
Rennlist Member
Mike. My Tech said he had enquired for a customer (about confirm build options on a new GT3) via PAG back in February and there was no conclusive answer (frustrating at the time) but that one of discs in part inventory were weighed against a 380mm steel disc and the difference was less than 3kg (6.5lb). The PCCB disc is not only larger but also thicker. The tech thought the difference at the rear would be even less as the stock steel disc is thinner (apparently). So maybe 22lb all round. Its still unsprung weight however so still good to save!
08-03-2014, 02:11 AM
#148
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
We've discussed this before. Porsche has claimed a 10 lb savings per corner with PCCBs in the past. The question is, when comparing the stock 380mm cast iron 991 GT3 rotor to the new 3rd generation 410mm ceramic ones, does the larger ceramic rotor eat into that weight difference, or is it still 10 lbs? Doing a little back of the napkin math, the assumption was that the difference might be down to around 8 lbs, which is still a lot.
I don't know which Excellence article Terence is referring to so maybe they've measured in real life. It's just that sometimes Porsche's marketing guys haven't caught up with the latest info, as we've seen from some of the mistakes on the website. It would be nice if we had actual weights of the two different rotors for a valid comparison.
I don't know which Excellence article Terence is referring to so maybe they've measured in real life. It's just that sometimes Porsche's marketing guys haven't caught up with the latest info, as we've seen from some of the mistakes on the website. It would be nice if we had actual weights of the two different rotors for a valid comparison.
The ceramics, no matter how you cut it, are fragile, they can have balance problems (Corvette ZR1), and they have to be weighed to assess current condition. One of the vendors even sells an aluminum guide so you don't ding a $5k rotor while reinstalling a wheel.
I'm a steel brakes kind of guy. Steel brakes are durable and hold up to repeated abuse on the street and on the track. While Porsche brake is high, steel rotors are fairly reasonable at about $500 per corner.
The topic has been pretty beaten to death, it just depends on your priorities. Personally I can't afford the $$ for rotors to get the clean wheels and slightly lower unspung weight.
Ryan
08-03-2014, 02:12 AM
#149
Nordschleife Master
btw, I don't have a problem with PCCB and people optioning with PCCB. If you like it, go for it. I just have a problem with a lot of the misinformation and misconceptions about the technology.
08-03-2014, 02:16 AM
#150
Nordschleife Master
Mike. My Tech said he had enquired for a customer (about confirm build options on a new GT3) via PAG back in February and there was no conclusive answer (frustrating at the time) but that one of discs in part inventory were weighed against a 380mm steel disc and the difference was less than 3kg (6.5lb). The PCCB disc is not only larger but also thicker. The tech thought the difference at the rear would be even less as the stock steel disc is thinner (apparently). So maybe 22lb all round. Its still unsprung weight however so still good to save!