First drive in 991 Speedster
05-09-2019, 10:59 AM
#136
...
Right on, and can look more into. No promises, as I am back in the states, but I do have some followup to do and will include this.
I did ask about the "lightweight dual-mass" flywheel in this car, and learned or re-learned some things about that. Short of it is this flywheel is lighter than previous attempts, and along with other rotating mass tweaks goes some way toward replicating the overall rotating mass of the 911R. So why not add a SMF to a 991.2 GT3 for the benefit? Answer is harmonics with the .2 GT3 engine...and while you can do it and it will feel great when you drive out of the shop, it won't be so happy a few thousand miles (?) later when one of the main bearings is compromised by the harmonics.
Will have more on the revvviness of this engine when I can share my driving impressions…
Right on, and can look more into. No promises, as I am back in the states, but I do have some followup to do and will include this.
I did ask about the "lightweight dual-mass" flywheel in this car, and learned or re-learned some things about that. Short of it is this flywheel is lighter than previous attempts, and along with other rotating mass tweaks goes some way toward replicating the overall rotating mass of the 911R. So why not add a SMF to a 991.2 GT3 for the benefit? Answer is harmonics with the .2 GT3 engine...and while you can do it and it will feel great when you drive out of the shop, it won't be so happy a few thousand miles (?) later when one of the main bearings is compromised by the harmonics.
Will have more on the revvviness of this engine when I can share my driving impressions…
Individual throttle bodies will also probably help in response (but not revviness). From my understanding mostly on the initial 0.5 second and on part throttle. Porsche has been thinking about the pros and cons of individual throttles on a road car for some time so very interesting that they finally did it.
Anyway, look forward to hearing from the drivers seat!
05-09-2019, 11:09 AM
#137
Race Director
If someone should not take his allocation, please contact me. My Porsche center is rather small, got only one allocation that was given to other customer already 2 years on the waiting list... It would be fantastic if this forum could help true enthusiasts...
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
05-09-2019, 12:29 PM
#138
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Until then, I am guessing that engine responsiveness/revviness is similar to a 911R with a dual-mass flywheel, as that car has a similarly engineered clutch that eliminates the pendulum dampener. A dual-mass flywheel equipped 911R is sharper in response/revviness than a GT3 manual but not as sharp as a 911R with a single-mass flywheel.
Individual throttle bodies will also probably help in response (but not revviness). From my understanding mostly on the initial 0.5 second and on part throttle. Porsche has been thinking about the pros and cons of individual throttles on a road car for some time so very interesting that they finally did it.
Anyway, look forward to hearing from the drivers seat!
Individual throttle bodies will also probably help in response (but not revviness). From my understanding mostly on the initial 0.5 second and on part throttle. Porsche has been thinking about the pros and cons of individual throttles on a road car for some time so very interesting that they finally did it.
Anyway, look forward to hearing from the drivers seat!
05-09-2019, 12:54 PM
#139
Rennlist Member
Will be interested in hearing perspective on clutch feel, uptake point etc vs GT3 manual
05-09-2019, 01:06 PM
#140
I think you are underestimating the Speedster on the responsiveness and revviness scales - I think it will be more impressive than your guesses. In addition to the things you mentioned, you did not mention the new power and torque peaks occur higher on the tach (250 rpm higher peak torque and 150 rpm higher peak hp) - this should contribute too.
05-09-2019, 01:06 PM
#141
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Thread Starter
So, I can see upsides and downsides to it. I walk to my office, so one of the two times of the day I have to deal with sun at the top of the windshield isn't an issue unless I'm getting up for a long trip...and I find that the times I have to use visors are pretty minimum...and I'd still have a visor in the Speedster. What's more, I'm fairly tall and the 991 Speedster's windshield is lower than a coupe's or a Cab's. Add to all that...I like a tall windshield and seeing more of the world for the vast majority of daylight and nighttime driving hours and...the more I think about it, the more I think I'd skip it if I had to pull the trigger without seeing it. Whenever I drive my 914, I marvel at how tall the windshield and greenhouse is. Even with the top in place, there's so much light...you really feel like you are out in the world in a way no modern car replicates. Ditto for older 911s. And I don't recall glare being a problem very often. YMMV.
Just finished reading these 9 pages, Thanks very much Pete!
Really looking forward to your driving report.
As for value, only the buyer himself will know if it is worth it or not.
I think it is about $50K more expensive than I anticipate, but I will buy one anyway.
At this price, Speedster is the preferred sport car for me in comparison to what the current Ferrari, Lambo or McLaren is offering, as I have stopped chasing for horsepower long time ago.
Really looking forward to your driving report.
As for value, only the buyer himself will know if it is worth it or not.
I think it is about $50K more expensive than I anticipate, but I will buy one anyway.
At this price, Speedster is the preferred sport car for me in comparison to what the current Ferrari, Lambo or McLaren is offering, as I have stopped chasing for horsepower long time ago.
^ And another. Most illuminating drive of the day, for me, was a quick squirt in the 356 Speedster. I've driven a lot of 356s over the years, but never a Speedster. And the romance of that car, on those roads down to the docks in a little bay, was off the charts. If I wanted a sports car for local roads and experiences, it would be pretty hard to beat that thing. The geometries of its curves ahead of the windshield, the tiny windshield, the quality of the finishes, the perfect seats, the mechanical 1:1 of every control, the sense of exposure and intimacy with the surroundings, the sense of occasion, and the pure fun factor were overwhelming—to the point that the pushrod four in the back didn't even really occur to me. Its power output was meager, the character of its power delivery meh, and its sound more nostalgic than compelling. I don't know as Porsche could build something like it now, or how, but my overarching thought is that anyone tasked with coming up with an electric sports car for Porsche should be forced to drive a 356 Speedster on Sardinia or some other sunny clime…for a month. It's no replacement for modern 911s, but it sure would be a nice complement.
05-09-2019, 01:11 PM
#142
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^ And another. Most illuminating drive of the day, for me, was a quick squirt in the 356 Speedster. I've driven a lot of 356s over the years, but never a Speedster. And the romance of that car, on those roads down to the docks in a little bay, was off the charts. If I wanted a sports car for local roads and experiences, it would be pretty hard to beat that thing. The geometries of its curves ahead of the windshield, the tiny windshield, the quality of the finishes, the perfect seats, the mechanical 1:1 of every control, the sense of exposure and intimacy with the surroundings, the sense of occasion, and the pure fun factor were overwhelming—to the point that the pushrod four in the back didn't even really occur to me. Its power output was meager, the character of its power delivery meh, and its sound more nostalgic than compelling. I don't know as Porsche could build something like it now, or how, but my overarching thought is that anyone tasked with coming up with an electric sports car for Porsche should be forced to drive a 356 Speedster on Sardinia or some other sunny clime…for a month. It's no replacement for modern 911s, but it sure would be a nice complement.
05-09-2019, 01:36 PM
#143
Nordschleife Master
Even though Pete Stout is not allowed to share any driving impressions,I thought he hinted at some point the sound is not all that it could be. Perhaps I misunderstood... However,I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were true...we've been waiting for months now for the 718 GT4 release and the spy videos have been nothing but confusing...to the point some actually believe it is a Turbo engine in there! This particulate filter is really messing up the sound in these cars!
Perhaps the market is too small on the Speedster,but I can only imagine the potential in the sound department that can be exploited by a good tuner : less restrictive headers,remove those particulate filters/mesh,a tune to eliminate CEL and to control the ITBs geared on performance rather than fuel economy. Let the Speedster sing,top down,beautiful roads...and put 200K miles/patina on it. Dreams,of course...
Perhaps the market is too small on the Speedster,but I can only imagine the potential in the sound department that can be exploited by a good tuner : less restrictive headers,remove those particulate filters/mesh,a tune to eliminate CEL and to control the ITBs geared on performance rather than fuel economy. Let the Speedster sing,top down,beautiful roads...and put 200K miles/patina on it. Dreams,of course...
05-09-2019, 03:47 PM
#145
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While we are waiting in this trough for the driving impressions embargo to be lifted, I spotted the Speedster configuration thread and posted the below after spending time with the Speedster. Not meant to suggest it's the right spec for someone else, but it's the way I would go...
After spending a couple of days around the Speedster in Sardinia, and a day behind the wheel while watching others on the road, here's what I'd order if no PTS:
PKIA5592
http://www.porsche-code.com/PKIA5592
Primary reasoning: I think silver really suits this car (I haven't bought a silver car for almost 20 years...), as will metallics (and normally I am a "uni" car). Metallics play up the character lines on the rear panels, and also "de-bulk" some areas due to the highlights fading to darkness. As for the interior, I'd actually skip the two-tone and red stitching in favor of classic black with black stitching, but go off the deep end on leather (a bit) because the car didn't feel like a lightweight to me on the road, and should feel expensive given its price point. Fire extinguisher and red belts and red 12 o'clock marker to add hints of sport/safety equipment, a nod to the original Speedster's primary usage in CA.
If PTS really is available and can be obtained, I'd think about 1980s Linen Metallic or some other "silver/champagne" color that picks up the warmth of vintage silvers of the 356/550 era. If LTS is offered, I'd be thinking about green leather on a straight silver of some sort (like the old 356s) or possibly Linen Metallic or similar on big grain Ascot Brown from the CGT.
YMMV!
After spending a couple of days around the Speedster in Sardinia, and a day behind the wheel while watching others on the road, here's what I'd order if no PTS:
PKIA5592
http://www.porsche-code.com/PKIA5592
Primary reasoning: I think silver really suits this car (I haven't bought a silver car for almost 20 years...), as will metallics (and normally I am a "uni" car). Metallics play up the character lines on the rear panels, and also "de-bulk" some areas due to the highlights fading to darkness. As for the interior, I'd actually skip the two-tone and red stitching in favor of classic black with black stitching, but go off the deep end on leather (a bit) because the car didn't feel like a lightweight to me on the road, and should feel expensive given its price point. Fire extinguisher and red belts and red 12 o'clock marker to add hints of sport/safety equipment, a nod to the original Speedster's primary usage in CA.
If PTS really is available and can be obtained, I'd think about 1980s Linen Metallic or some other "silver/champagne" color that picks up the warmth of vintage silvers of the 356/550 era. If LTS is offered, I'd be thinking about green leather on a straight silver of some sort (like the old 356s) or possibly Linen Metallic or similar on big grain Ascot Brown from the CGT.
YMMV!
Would love to see a different color interior package with the car besides the heritage cognac package. It was be awesome to the Ascot Brown from the CGT because to me that is what the interior of the old speedsters looks closer to. I love the color contrast this creates with the metallic on the outside. True Speedster style.
What would really be nice to me is if they offered a more spartan interior with some aluminum bits to mimic the sparse interior of the original 356 Speedster. Less leather and less plastic. In the grand scheme I understand why this doesn't work but it would be so cool to have something with the old school painted dash and nothing much extra other than what is needed.
Funny story is that my IMSA co-driver Dan has some funny original speedster stories as his dad used to fix them up and sell them in the 60's/70's. He has told me a lot of times that his dad quit buying them at some point because the price got too high. His dad couldn't believe anyone would pay over $5k for the no frills Speedster.
05-09-2019, 06:01 PM
#146
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Thanks Pete
i always forget to ask you why the touring has the modified conic air filters instead of GT3 plain trapezoidal ones
and does the Speedster have 6 air filters because the ITBs?
i always forget to ask you why the touring has the modified conic air filters instead of GT3 plain trapezoidal ones
and does the Speedster have 6 air filters because the ITBs?
05-09-2019, 06:11 PM
#147
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Thanks Pete
i always forget to ask you why the touring has the modified conic air filters instead of GT3 plain trapezoidal ones
and does the Speedster have 6 air filters because the ITBs?
i always forget to ask you why the touring has the modified conic air filters instead of GT3 plain trapezoidal ones
and does the Speedster have 6 air filters because the ITBs?
Here is a Singer with plenum using single filter (probably oval-cylindrical):
Even 911's that use ITB's without a plenum generally get by with two filters (one per bank):
But Singer has one example with 6 little filters (I guess there is a filter inside the mesh). No plenum, so giving up some torque but gaining a cool look and sound!:
Since the 991 engine is buried under a panel, no reason to go for a prettier but lower performing choice
No reason you can't use something very similar to current car with the ITB's right above each cylinder (just below the hose clamps like the 991 GT3 R and RSR race cars below):
Last edited by GrantG; 05-09-2019 at 06:48 PM.
05-10-2019, 02:37 AM
#148
GT3 player par excellence
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I am a very slow reader
not an English major
and bike lagged
I need cliff notes
to buy or not to buy, Pete?
not an English major
and bike lagged
I need cliff notes
to buy or not to buy, Pete?
05-10-2019, 05:30 AM
#149
A funny thing about the official weight is that the norm has changed between the introduction of the R, and the Speedster.
For the R, it was possible to indicate the weight in the lightest configuration.
For the Speedster, it must be the "base" (no option) configuration.
Why do you think that the bucket seats, AC delete and radio delete were options for the R, and this is the opposite for the Speedster?
For the R, it was possible to indicate the weight in the lightest configuration.
For the Speedster, it must be the "base" (no option) configuration.
Why do you think that the bucket seats, AC delete and radio delete were options for the R, and this is the opposite for the Speedster?
05-10-2019, 09:05 AM
#150
Haha... also funny, with the .2 GT3 engines they made the power curve less sharp for better everyday-drivability by using a 3-stage-intake and now with the speedster they go again for a more racelike power delivery with peak torque / power on higher revs. Curious to see how the torque curve really went with the new STB.