Miscommunication surrounding 991.2 GT3 RS Deposit
02-20-2018, 12:59 AM
#151
I'm assuming you're in the NYC metro area, but even if you're not try to attend the upcoming NY Auto Show. Go as early as possible. First day if you can. The dealership may even be able to get you early bird tickets. Once there go to the Porsche booths and ask around for a high ranking Porsche official (like for the entire eastern corridor) or whoever you can find. Make an appointment if necessary. Explain to that person your situation and see if they can do anything for you. Possibly not, but it's worth a shot. In the past I did and it helped immensely!
02-20-2018, 01:56 AM
#152
Race Director
I tell a buddy of mine what cars cost here and he just shakes his head. He is from Australia and prices are basically double, if you can get the car at all. A little ADM on top of our prices would not bother him at all.
02-20-2018, 02:31 AM
#153
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
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This is not isolated nor is it the first time this has happened. As far as contacting PCNA, you can write letters all day. The addresses are on the PCNA website.
There is even a guy who job it is to settle "Customer relations" But all you'll get back from PAG or PCNA is:
"Porsche dealers are independent contractors. We have no control over how they set the prices."
Now Andy P has said PAG is going to start cracking down on Flippers and that they will watch dealers who are co conspirators it this
but I dont know what they are going to do. The problem is these guys live on commission and as soon as they see a bigger one they
are all over it, stepping all over the guy who bought 5 cars before.
While we hope that some day they develop some type of scruples I dont know whats going to happen in the future.
What I DONT get is how a dealer will blow a deal with a client who has a long history of buying new 911's? Porsche knows who
these people are. I am one of them. SO why do these guys who have huge historical backgrounds get treated like crap? PAG makes
SURE a guy who spends $800K one time on one car gets treated right. The one time 918 buyer gets the red carpet.
But then treats a guy who has spent $1.5 mill over 15 years gets treated like the garbage man. Why doesn't PAG or PCNA track those
guys. I am sure there is more than 30-40 guys here fall into that and cant get a car. It seems like STILL PCNA doesn't look long term
to handle loyal customers. Oh well.
bullcrap. I dont get it.
There is even a guy who job it is to settle "Customer relations" But all you'll get back from PAG or PCNA is:
"Porsche dealers are independent contractors. We have no control over how they set the prices."
Now Andy P has said PAG is going to start cracking down on Flippers and that they will watch dealers who are co conspirators it this
but I dont know what they are going to do. The problem is these guys live on commission and as soon as they see a bigger one they
are all over it, stepping all over the guy who bought 5 cars before.
While we hope that some day they develop some type of scruples I dont know whats going to happen in the future.
What I DONT get is how a dealer will blow a deal with a client who has a long history of buying new 911's? Porsche knows who
these people are. I am one of them. SO why do these guys who have huge historical backgrounds get treated like crap? PAG makes
SURE a guy who spends $800K one time on one car gets treated right. The one time 918 buyer gets the red carpet.
But then treats a guy who has spent $1.5 mill over 15 years gets treated like the garbage man. Why doesn't PAG or PCNA track those
guys. I am sure there is more than 30-40 guys here fall into that and cant get a car. It seems like STILL PCNA doesn't look long term
to handle loyal customers. Oh well.
bullcrap. I dont get it.
02-20-2018, 07:47 AM
#154
Rennlist Member
Customer Repellant Program
..
Last edited by 928 GT R; 02-21-2018 at 10:16 AM.
02-20-2018, 09:04 AM
#155
Three Wheelin'
Secondly, isn't what any buyer is asking is to say, what is the price and what is the process to acquire. If its a lottery, say its a lottery. Its its because you have 50 porches already, you go to front of line then say that. If its a first in first deposit, then stick to it. If its an auction where best price over wins, then say that. But don't pretend to accept one method (ie deposit in line) with one customer, then blindside them with another method (best auction price over wins). That's just bull*** and yes will be bad karma for Porsche, the dealers and the salesperson.
I'm not going to put down any more fantasy deposits. I'm not going to assume that knowing everybody at the dealership will help me get a car in the future. I'm not going to think that if I don't push for too big of a discount on my TTS, it will win me a spot for some future car. I'm not going to think there is anything special I can do to avoid paying market pricing for any Porsche I might want. I accept it. Do I think Porsche could do something to fix this, like a lottery system? Yes. Do I love my TTS, yes. Do I still feel any loyalty to my local dealer, PCNA, or PAG? No. Do I plan to negotiate hard for my next TTS? Absolutely. Do I plan to give other brands a harder look next time, absolutely.
02-20-2018, 09:46 AM
#156
I think this is really the core issue. Dealerships continue to move the cheese, and that's the part that is on purpose. I've thought deposits would help. Nah. I thought buying multiple Turbo S's would help. Nah. I thought building a relationship with the dealership would help. Nah. Dealerships will do what is most profitable for them today, and I have finally realized that fact. The dealers would prefer we all continue to think deposits and volume purchasing helps, and that's the deceitful part of the equation.
I'm not going to put down any more fantasy deposits. I'm not going to assume that knowing everybody at the dealership will help me get a car in the future. I'm not going to think that if I don't push for too big of a discount on my TTS, it will win me a spot for some future car. I'm not going to think there is anything special I can do to avoid paying market pricing for any Porsche I might want. I accept it. Do I think Porsche could do something to fix this, like a lottery system? Yes. Do I love my TTS, yes. Do I still feel any loyalty to my local dealer, PCNA, or PAG? No. Do I plan to negotiate hard for my next TTS? Absolutely. Do I plan to give other brands a harder look next time, absolutely.
I'm not going to put down any more fantasy deposits. I'm not going to assume that knowing everybody at the dealership will help me get a car in the future. I'm not going to think that if I don't push for too big of a discount on my TTS, it will win me a spot for some future car. I'm not going to think there is anything special I can do to avoid paying market pricing for any Porsche I might want. I accept it. Do I think Porsche could do something to fix this, like a lottery system? Yes. Do I love my TTS, yes. Do I still feel any loyalty to my local dealer, PCNA, or PAG? No. Do I plan to negotiate hard for my next TTS? Absolutely. Do I plan to give other brands a harder look next time, absolutely.
02-20-2018, 10:21 AM
#157
Rennlist Member
Sorry to hear about the OP's deposit issue. I personally have had nothing but good experiences with Paul Miller. I'm not a 918 VIP guy, but they come through for me with allocations on most of the cars that I want to buy. I did not get a 997 4.0 or a 911R, but I normally end up with any other GT car as long as my deposit is in 2-3 years ahead of the allocation distributions. I'm sure my purchase history and relationship helps, but I understand how frustrating it must be for new enthusiasts that want to get in. The real issue is the booming economy which has created greed with the flippers and some dealers. Paul Miller is definitely not one of those dealers. All we need is a recession and some hyper inflation and this will all go away. I hope it works out and the OP gets his 991.2 3RS.
With regards to lists, my theory is that most dealers have an A and B list. The A list is for their VIP/Loyal customers and the B List is everyone else. As unfortunate as this is, I don't blame them for wanting to give their first and maybe only round of allocations to the A list. Second and Third round allocations, if they come, go to the B-listers. They have a better chance of the A-list customers buying more from them in the future than a newbie B-lister laying down a deposit 2+ years in advance. Most A-listers also have cars in-hand to trade that the dealer can make more money on.
With regards to lists, my theory is that most dealers have an A and B list. The A list is for their VIP/Loyal customers and the B List is everyone else. As unfortunate as this is, I don't blame them for wanting to give their first and maybe only round of allocations to the A list. Second and Third round allocations, if they come, go to the B-listers. They have a better chance of the A-list customers buying more from them in the future than a newbie B-lister laying down a deposit 2+ years in advance. Most A-listers also have cars in-hand to trade that the dealer can make more money on.
02-20-2018, 10:53 AM
#158
Three Wheelin'
Fully agree.
Valid points.
Articulated well.
It takes two to tango. However few there may be, they still exist for dealers who are honest and wants a dealer/customer relationship. Just as many others in this forum, many buy the Porsche car brand, with different models, sometimes buy multiple cars of the same model. Just as everyone else you queue in line and establish that "relationship" with your chosen dealer.
Like what I said, there are still dealers out there who can be trusted. They are all not bad and robbers. Many are represented here in this forum. You just need to do your due diligence in finding the right one who you can work with, and not rob you with your eyes wide open. Good luck.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
I'm still trying to understand why you think you deserve a car over any other customer. If there are 5 cars coming in to that dealership and 30 people on their list, why should you get one? Are you the only person who put a deposit down? Are you sure that you were in the first five to do so? There are a lot of people who want these cars, more demand than supply. What is the logic that you 'deserve' a car over anyone else? And don't say deposit, because there are way more deposits down at dealers across the U.S. than there are cars available.
And how do you envision this help? Go to your dealer and say you have this friend, first time buyer, who wants one of those GT cars. Can you pull him on top of the list? Behind you of course. When asked you tell him that you don't know whether he will service the car there or not. You are just wanting to help a friend. Afterall you bought all those cars from them and thought they would do you this favor.
It takes two to tango. However few there may be, they still exist for dealers who are honest and wants a dealer/customer relationship. Just as many others in this forum, many buy the Porsche car brand, with different models, sometimes buy multiple cars of the same model. Just as everyone else you queue in line and establish that "relationship" with your chosen dealer.
Like what I said, there are still dealers out there who can be trusted. They are all not bad and robbers. Many are represented here in this forum. You just need to do your due diligence in finding the right one who you can work with, and not rob you with your eyes wide open. Good luck.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Sorry to hear about the OP's deposit issue. I personally have had nothing but good experiences with Paul Miller. I'm not a 918 VIP guy, but they come through for me with allocations on most of the cars that I want to buy. I did not get a 997 4.0 or a 911R, but I normally end up with any other GT car as long as my deposit is in 2-3 years ahead of the allocation distributions. I'm sure my purchase history and relationship helps, but I understand how frustrating it must be for new enthusiasts that want to get in. The real issue is the booming economy which has created greed with the flippers and some dealers. Paul Miller is definitely not one of those dealers. All we need is a recession and some hyper inflation and this will all go away. I hope it works out and the OP gets his 991.2 3RS.
With regards to lists, my theory is that most dealers have an A and B list. The A list is for their VIP/Loyal customers and the B List is everyone else. As unfortunate as this is, I don't blame them for wanting to give their first and maybe only round of allocations to the A list. Second and Third round allocations, if they come, go to the B-listers. They have a better chance of the A-list customers buying more from them in the future than a newbie B-lister laying down a deposit 2+ years in advance. Most A-listers also have cars in-hand to trade that the dealer can make more money on.
With regards to lists, my theory is that most dealers have an A and B list. The A list is for their VIP/Loyal customers and the B List is everyone else. As unfortunate as this is, I don't blame them for wanting to give their first and maybe only round of allocations to the A list. Second and Third round allocations, if they come, go to the B-listers. They have a better chance of the A-list customers buying more from them in the future than a newbie B-lister laying down a deposit 2+ years in advance. Most A-listers also have cars in-hand to trade that the dealer can make more money on.
02-20-2018, 12:57 PM
#160
The other thing that's lost on some people is the fact that dealers have to deal with all sorts of flighty customers and they have to pick and choose who they want to do business with in relation to this scarce resource of cars. Anyone who's heard the horror stories from dealers about certain customers knows that a rock solid, proven customer that they know will close the deal has a lot of value to them vs. someone on the phone they don't know from Adam and who may just bail and leave them with ****ty build to try to move.
02-20-2018, 03:18 PM
#161
Three Wheelin'
Sorry to hear about the OP's deposit issue. I personally have had nothing but good experiences with Paul Miller. I'm not a 918 VIP guy, but they come through for me with allocations on most of the cars that I want to buy. I did not get a 997 4.0 or a 911R, but I normally end up with any other GT car as long as my deposit is in 2-3 years ahead of the allocation distributions. I'm sure my purchase history and relationship helps, but I understand how frustrating it must be for new enthusiasts that want to get in. The real issue is the booming economy which has created greed with the flippers and some dealers. Paul Miller is definitely not one of those dealers. All we need is a recession and some hyper inflation and this will all go away. I hope it works out and the OP gets his 991.2 3RS.
With regards to lists, my theory is that most dealers have an A and B list. The A list is for their VIP/Loyal customers and the B List is everyone else. As unfortunate as this is, I don't blame them for wanting to give their first and maybe only round of allocations to the A list. Second and Third round allocations, if they come, go to the B-listers. They have a better chance of the A-list customers buying more from them in the future than a newbie B-lister laying down a deposit 2+ years in advance. Most A-listers also have cars in-hand to trade that the dealer can make more money on.
With regards to lists, my theory is that most dealers have an A and B list. The A list is for their VIP/Loyal customers and the B List is everyone else. As unfortunate as this is, I don't blame them for wanting to give their first and maybe only round of allocations to the A list. Second and Third round allocations, if they come, go to the B-listers. They have a better chance of the A-list customers buying more from them in the future than a newbie B-lister laying down a deposit 2+ years in advance. Most A-listers also have cars in-hand to trade that the dealer can make more money on.
02-20-2018, 06:18 PM
#162
Race Director
Paul miller is a dog**** dealer that would charge their proverbial mother extra for everything. parts mark up is 100% or more over msrp. i wouldnt buy so much as a candy cane from those bunch of assclowns.
02-20-2018, 07:08 PM
#163
Rennlist Member
Instead they sold a GT3 to a youtuber who never bought a car from them before, now I'm buying an Audi RS4 daily and I'm undecided on what to get for fun, keep eyeing the 458.
Porsche will keep ****ting on customers till they run out, one day it'll catch up to them.
02-20-2018, 09:54 PM
#164
I was told I need to build a relationship to get a GT3 order, this was after buying three cars in three years, with the prospect of five in four year as I would have bought a Sport Turismo for a daily.
Instead they sold a GT3 to a youtuber who never bought a car from them before, now I'm buying an Audi RS4 daily and I'm undecided on what to get for fun, keep eyeing the 458.
Porsche will keep ****ting on customers till they run out, one day it'll catch up to them.
Instead they sold a GT3 to a youtuber who never bought a car from them before, now I'm buying an Audi RS4 daily and I'm undecided on what to get for fun, keep eyeing the 458.
Porsche will keep ****ting on customers till they run out, one day it'll catch up to them.
02-20-2018, 09:56 PM
#165
+1 - this is a pretty good summary. The game has changed and now I look at everything vs just calling my Porsche dealer. My last car was a McLaren 570S and I have a confirmed 720S order, pretty close to putting down an 812 deposit. I also need to pick up 2 or 3 family cars this year - not sure how many will be Porsches as of today the Macan(still pretty much the same car as the last 2 I've owned)/Cayenne (new one has been delayed until the fall) feels very outdated vs the Velar/XC60/New RR Sport. Panamera maybe has a shot, but why pay the Porsche premium for little gain and my wife thinks it's an old persons car. Porsche still regularly sends me marketing materials - got a nice form letter from them a week ago saying how important relationships are to them and a glossy book on the Porsche line up. If I was betting, I would say Porsche's share of my $850kish spend on cars this year is probably going to be $0.