Gear shifter flexing under torque in 4th gear, on 991.2 GT3
06-04-2018, 05:02 PM
#46
Track Day
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pewaukee, WI
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I just took Leipzig delivery last week and have this issue. I took a video of the issue and will call my dealer this week to see what they have to say. I am very curious to hear what your dealers have to say as well. All other gears are rock solid as most of you state. ANY off/on throttle and the gear lever does what I was calling the Pee-wee Herman dance. It doesn't just move in one direction. It moves up/back/up on both power-on and power-off. It doesn't matter how much power whether is it 5% or 50% throttle it does the dance. It certainly didn't seem or feel right that all other gears showed no movement. If I held the lever tightly in other gears i could feel the power 'engage' the tranny but the lever didn't physically move. 4th was dancing. While this may end up be 'normal' it certainly doesn't look or feel normal and does not represent Porsche quality. My (our) new $175K car(s) shouldn't be making us feel like there is something is wrong. If this were "normal" why isn't it happening to ALL of our cars? I did 10 laps of the Nordschleife shifting at about 5K rpm and we did 1550 miles on 8 days on the car with no issue - other than my concern. Please keep this post updated, I will do the same. Although I don't expect to see my car again for 8 weeks - very sad face 
Last edited by Husaberg44; 06-04-2018 at 05:03 PM. Reason: spelling
06-04-2018, 06:01 PM
#47
Drifting
If we assume there is no underlying issue, the shifter movement is simply from engine torque. When the engine is under load, it wants to rock in its mounts. This movement transfers to anything attached to the engine, like the transmission (and by association, the shifter). This is normal and it happens in most manual transmission cars—to some degree.
If we assume there is actually some sort of underlying problem (a big assumption), then the first things I would look at are:
1. Engine mounts: In other cars, this is sometimes the culprit—if they have hundreds of thousands of miles on them and they are worn. But the 991.2 GT3 is new. And it supposedly has active engine mounts, right? So maybe... just maybe... it has something to do with how the active engine mounts are programmed to behave.
2. Transmission mounts: again, maybe a bad transmission mount. But I highly doubt it since these cars are new.
3. Loose shifter linkage/cabling.
But these are all huge assumptions. And the shifter moving a bit under throttle is no big deal. UNLESS, there is proof it's linked to some other underlying problem. Which, right now, it is not.
And btw, I know the 911R behaves the same way. I've seen it in person. And I've seen it in video reviews as well. The shifter lever moves a bit under throttle.
If we assume there is actually some sort of underlying problem (a big assumption), then the first things I would look at are:
1. Engine mounts: In other cars, this is sometimes the culprit—if they have hundreds of thousands of miles on them and they are worn. But the 991.2 GT3 is new. And it supposedly has active engine mounts, right? So maybe... just maybe... it has something to do with how the active engine mounts are programmed to behave.
2. Transmission mounts: again, maybe a bad transmission mount. But I highly doubt it since these cars are new.
3. Loose shifter linkage/cabling.
But these are all huge assumptions. And the shifter moving a bit under throttle is no big deal. UNLESS, there is proof it's linked to some other underlying problem. Which, right now, it is not.
And btw, I know the 911R behaves the same way. I've seen it in person. And I've seen it in video reviews as well. The shifter lever moves a bit under throttle.
06-05-2018, 10:01 AM
#49
Same here.
One of the main advantages of a cable shifter (as newer 911s have) vs a pushrod (like older 911s, 944s, etc) is that it isolates the shifter from any engine movement. This leaves the engine free to rock and roll while the shift lever stays steady.
Unfortunately I suspect the noted 5mm of lever movement, only in 4th gear, indicates an internal issue in the gearbox. I can’t say for sure if it’s a problem (could be that’s OK) but the fact that most of us don’t get that movement makes me suspect it is- something moving on a shaft that shouldn’t be, most likely...
His transmission was changed and he said that the gearbox expert in the dealer told him that there is an internal issue in the gearbox and normally there should not be any movement due to cable connection.
06-05-2018, 06:11 PM
#52
Same movement here. Low rev push and pull lever moves about 5 to 10 mm forward and backwards. I have documented this with the Porsche center as soon as I came home after picking up the car in Zuffenhausen.
06-05-2018, 07:00 PM
#53
I think this is pretty conclusive due to one simple fact..! That is only a certain percentage exhibit this very obvious,distinct and annoying trait..Bearing that in mind and by default that it is not a case of 'they all do that sir'; then i can deduce by a simple process of elimination, that there is a mechanical anomaly within the gearbox which needs to be sorted under warranty by Porsche..
This should be done sooner rather than later IMO, as it will be easier to cite a manufacturing fault rather than a long term wear/abuse issue...
This should be done sooner rather than later IMO, as it will be easier to cite a manufacturing fault rather than a long term wear/abuse issue...
06-05-2018, 07:13 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
If porsche makes it right - possible recall to fix all manuals instead of denying it for 10 years like the 996 IMS debacle, all will be okay with the car's performance (and future values with the 991.2 manual version)...I believe that the new regime at Porsche, having granted the 10 year warranty on the 991.1 has learned their lesson, we hope, and deal with this situation properly....and immediately with any owners voicing the "4th gear moon walk..."
06-06-2018, 12:50 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
So this video was posted in another thread. Fast forward to about 4:25 and run it at half speed. You can see the shifter move presumably when the foot is lifted off the throttle.
06-06-2018, 01:07 PM
#56
Drifting
06-06-2018, 02:45 PM
#57
There might not be anything "wrong" with it but it's annoying when the shifter in your almost $200k car moves more than the one in your $30k Subaru. Even more annoying that not everyone is having the same issue.
06-06-2018, 06:00 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
+++++++1
And why some don't and some do indicates a QA issue..............maybe out of this world, but this also may be tied into rev matching issues (not working) when car is in 4th or going into 4th, as posted in other threads..............
It will be interesting to see how they address as they have already replaced manual transmissions with this issue as noted in other posts............
AGAIN..........THERE IS NO PERFECT CAR.............but Porsche is close..........
And why some don't and some do indicates a QA issue..............maybe out of this world, but this also may be tied into rev matching issues (not working) when car is in 4th or going into 4th, as posted in other threads..............
It will be interesting to see how they address as they have already replaced manual transmissions with this issue as noted in other posts............
AGAIN..........THERE IS NO PERFECT CAR.............but Porsche is close..........
06-07-2018, 03:25 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Guys
I have owned many modern Porsches with manual transmission including 2008 Cayman, 2008 Boxster, 2013 Boxster, 2016 GT4, 2016 Boxster Spyder, 991.1 & 991.2 911 and non of them exhibited this movement or flex in the shifter, which is why I was concerned that perhaps something was wrong, but after many inspections by Porsche & PCNA technician who flew to inspect the car and many discussions with PCNA team, they are saying it is normal and are sure this flex or movement is normal and is inherent to this new shifter design and mainly due to how the new GT3 linkage is positioned and how it is attached to the actual shifter. They are saying the linkage in the GT3 is positioned directly inline and in perfect alignment with 4th gear gate, so there is no offset present like it is the case of the other Porsches where there is a slight offset, and where this offset usually preloads the linkage slightly and gives it some additional rigidity, which is why we they are claiming we are noticing slight movement in the shifter in 4th only as throttle input is varied. So they are saying it is a result of the linkage geometry..
As others pointed out, and as PCNA also points out, this movement occurs with the slightest and smoothest throttle input (even less than 5%), so it is not likely be torque induced or due to a bad mount, and why only in 4th and rock solid in all other gears. So they are saying it is normal and only due to geometry of 4th to the linkage and nothing to worry about. After adding 3000 miles on the car, I hardly notice it anymore and really in love with this car and it has become my all time favorite. We have 4 yrs warranty and I probably put over 20k miles in the next 18 months, so the truth will come out sooner or later. I am not worried, I have gone through 3 engines on my 991.1 GT3 in 20,000 miles as I drive them very hard, so one way or another I am determined to get to the bottom of this weather PCNA is truthful or feeding us some bull****. Hopefully this helps.
Finally I also have watched few YouTube review videos of manual GT3, like the one Shmee did on a test track and also observed this shifter movement in his video and few others as well. So perhaps all the manual GT3 cars suffer from this, but we need to keep an eye on it and perhaps if anyone had their transmission replaced anywhere in the world due to this or due to another transmission failure, can weigh in here. We need to verify these replacement claims and if indeed the replacement tranny fixed this issue, or if this issue contributed to a failure. After 3000 hard miles on mine, including track and autocross usage, the transmission seems very solids and the shifts are perfect. I have been addicted to the no-lift shifts, and the launch control. So aside from this annoying movement, everything else works perfect. Hope to hear from others on this. Mark
I have owned many modern Porsches with manual transmission including 2008 Cayman, 2008 Boxster, 2013 Boxster, 2016 GT4, 2016 Boxster Spyder, 991.1 & 991.2 911 and non of them exhibited this movement or flex in the shifter, which is why I was concerned that perhaps something was wrong, but after many inspections by Porsche & PCNA technician who flew to inspect the car and many discussions with PCNA team, they are saying it is normal and are sure this flex or movement is normal and is inherent to this new shifter design and mainly due to how the new GT3 linkage is positioned and how it is attached to the actual shifter. They are saying the linkage in the GT3 is positioned directly inline and in perfect alignment with 4th gear gate, so there is no offset present like it is the case of the other Porsches where there is a slight offset, and where this offset usually preloads the linkage slightly and gives it some additional rigidity, which is why we they are claiming we are noticing slight movement in the shifter in 4th only as throttle input is varied. So they are saying it is a result of the linkage geometry..
As others pointed out, and as PCNA also points out, this movement occurs with the slightest and smoothest throttle input (even less than 5%), so it is not likely be torque induced or due to a bad mount, and why only in 4th and rock solid in all other gears. So they are saying it is normal and only due to geometry of 4th to the linkage and nothing to worry about. After adding 3000 miles on the car, I hardly notice it anymore and really in love with this car and it has become my all time favorite. We have 4 yrs warranty and I probably put over 20k miles in the next 18 months, so the truth will come out sooner or later. I am not worried, I have gone through 3 engines on my 991.1 GT3 in 20,000 miles as I drive them very hard, so one way or another I am determined to get to the bottom of this weather PCNA is truthful or feeding us some bull****. Hopefully this helps.
Finally I also have watched few YouTube review videos of manual GT3, like the one Shmee did on a test track and also observed this shifter movement in his video and few others as well. So perhaps all the manual GT3 cars suffer from this, but we need to keep an eye on it and perhaps if anyone had their transmission replaced anywhere in the world due to this or due to another transmission failure, can weigh in here. We need to verify these replacement claims and if indeed the replacement tranny fixed this issue, or if this issue contributed to a failure. After 3000 hard miles on mine, including track and autocross usage, the transmission seems very solids and the shifts are perfect. I have been addicted to the no-lift shifts, and the launch control. So aside from this annoying movement, everything else works perfect. Hope to hear from others on this. Mark
06-07-2018, 04:36 AM
#60
Instructor
Thanks, Mark, for your feedback. My Touring shows the same behaviour, but I am not overly worried by that. The manual transmission as such works very well. The only thing which is indeed a bit strange is that about 50% of manual GT3s seem to have this „loose“ 4th gear, the other half not. I have started a poll on the German Porsche forum PFF to gather some statistical data and views. Might be worthwhile starting a similar survey on Rennlist, too?
Best,
Tobias
Best,
Tobias