New GT3/GT2RS Leads With/Without ADM
03-10-2019, 12:31 PM
#4081
Race Car
So why not just mark all of their auctions as SOLD, regardless of the actual outcome? Things don't add up to a complete picture here -- something is missing (not right).
I have no problem with BaT offering a deal to the seller to lower his reserve and make everyone happy. The 5% fee is theirs to play with however they want -- all auctioneers do this all the time. Falsely representing results/outcomes is a problem and a different matter altogether.
I have no problem with BaT offering a deal to the seller to lower his reserve and make everyone happy. The 5% fee is theirs to play with however they want -- all auctioneers do this all the time. Falsely representing results/outcomes is a problem and a different matter altogether.
03-10-2019, 12:40 PM
#4082
So why not just mark all of their auctions as SOLD, regardless of the actual outcome? Things don't add up to a complete picture here -- something is missing (not right).
I have no problem with BaT offering a deal to the seller to lower his reserve and make everyone happy. The 5% fee is theirs to play with however they want -- all auctioneers do this all the time. Falsely representing results/outcomes is a problem and a different matter altogether.
I got no horse in this race but from game theoretical perspective it is also possible that BaT competitors start spreading FUD about BaT to divert auction traffic to their own sites. Many internet wars out there.
I have no problem with BaT offering a deal to the seller to lower his reserve and make everyone happy. The 5% fee is theirs to play with however they want -- all auctioneers do this all the time. Falsely representing results/outcomes is a problem and a different matter altogether.
I got no horse in this race but from game theoretical perspective it is also possible that BaT competitors start spreading FUD about BaT to divert auction traffic to their own sites. Many internet wars out there.
03-10-2019, 12:42 PM
#4083
03-10-2019, 12:52 PM
#4084
Racer
If you were wondering why Bring a Trailer would pitch in to reach reserve price or they would report a sale when didn't occur, it's simply because they're trying to increase their company valuation. It doesn't matter if they're not profitable.
This is why their sales can't be used as comps.
BTW it looks like the highest bidder is on Rennlist, maybe he can confirm.
This is why their sales can't be used as comps.
BTW it looks like the highest bidder is on Rennlist, maybe he can confirm.
03-10-2019, 12:57 PM
#4085
The strength of bat lies in the very many eyeballs watching the auctions, making expert comments and keeping the sellers honest. I doubt there can be room for another site doing the same thing, very hard to get a a critical mass of viewers.
03-10-2019, 01:11 PM
#4086
Rennlist Member
Finally, the highest bid at a well trafficked auction venue is a valuable market data point in its own right, regardless of whether it resulted in a sale or not. An actual sale is more valuable data, of course.
03-10-2019, 01:31 PM
#4088
I didn't contradict myself. The "market price" of a successfully completed auction at all auction venues includes (or excludes) various fees paid by buyer and/or seller to the auctioneer, which are negotiated on a per case basis. This is completely different from falsely claiming that a successful auction sale has occurred.
Finally, the highest bid at a well trafficked auction venue is a valuable market data point in its own right, regardless of whether it resulted in a sale or not. An actual sale is more valuable data, of course.
Finally, the highest bid at a well trafficked auction venue is a valuable market data point in its own right, regardless of whether it resulted in a sale or not. An actual sale is more valuable data, of course.
And in order to determine market value we need multiple sales to do comps.
03-10-2019, 01:37 PM
#4089
Rennlist Member
I mentioned it earlier, by definition "market value" is what buyers are willing to pay and is based on an actual sale (if money is not exchanged it's not a sale), if a third party steps in to increase the highest big to reach reserve then that's not market.
And in order to determine market value we need multiple sales to do comps.
And in order to determine market value we need multiple sales to do comps.
1. The net price that the buyer pays.
2. The net price that the seller gets.
3. Transaction costs ( = 1 - 2 )
"Market value" does not necessarily and exclusively refer to #1 above.
03-10-2019, 01:47 PM
#4090
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
No single data point makes a market- it's merely one point. Plenty of everything selling, and the sell through ratio or the no reserve effect on the gooding cars shows that even at 400k+ there are interested parties. If I had unlimited money I definitely would have bought the gooding 918 and GT2RS and 4.0RS
There are ALWAYS shenanigans with auctions. ALWAYS. Google "sothebys scandal" or "bonhams art scandal" etc etc. lots of meat on the bone for auction houses and as the seinfeld speedster lawsuit thing shows recently a lot of people are interested in separating themselves or 'selling the big one' and that drives the market or auctioneer to engineer compromises into their individual deals. Its very fluid, very negotiable and no SEC regulations. You should be cynical about grandstanding "we crushed it with these all time high prices" type info...its propaganda to get everyone riled up to keep buying.
There are ALWAYS shenanigans with auctions. ALWAYS. Google "sothebys scandal" or "bonhams art scandal" etc etc. lots of meat on the bone for auction houses and as the seinfeld speedster lawsuit thing shows recently a lot of people are interested in separating themselves or 'selling the big one' and that drives the market or auctioneer to engineer compromises into their individual deals. Its very fluid, very negotiable and no SEC regulations. You should be cynical about grandstanding "we crushed it with these all time high prices" type info...its propaganda to get everyone riled up to keep buying.
03-10-2019, 01:48 PM
#4091
Drifting
When new, MSRP would include the two fees. When used, MSRP would not. But sellers like to include the fees similar to how some would include tax, CPO costs, etc. vinanalytics would not include the fees (I don’t believe so).
03-10-2019, 01:50 PM
#4092
Racer
I mentioned it earlier, by definition "market value" is what buyers are willing to pay and is based on an actual sale (if money is not exchanged it's not a sale), if a third party steps in to increase the highest big to reach reserve then that's not market.
And in order to determine market value we need multiple sales to do comps.
And in order to determine market value we need multiple sales to do comps.
If you are bidding on a BaT car, are you factoring in the extra 5% in evaluating how much you are willing to pay? I would hope so.
03-10-2019, 02:07 PM
#4093
03-10-2019, 02:22 PM
#4094
I think BAT considers that GT4 sold if the high bid met reserve (including any possible BAT fee contribution to sale). At that point BAT immediately collects the 5% (up to $5K) fee from the buyer's credit card, the auction is marked sold, and BAT is then out of the picture, leaving it to the participants to conclude the transaction. Some issue could arise after point that between the buyer and the seller which may result in a sale not materializing.
Last edited by docapl; 03-10-2019 at 03:03 PM.
03-10-2019, 02:28 PM
#4095
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
No single data point makes a market- it's merely one point. Plenty of everything selling, and the sell through ratio or the no reserve effect on the gooding cars shows that even at 400k+ there are interested parties. If I had unlimited money I definitely would have bought the gooding 918 and GT2RS and 4.0RS
There are ALWAYS shenanigans with auctions. ALWAYS. Google "sothebys scandal" or "bonhams art scandal" etc etc. lots of meat on the bone for auction houses and as the seinfeld speedster lawsuit thing shows recently a lot of people are interested in separating themselves or 'selling the big one' and that drives the market or auctioneer to engineer compromises into their individual deals. Its very fluid, very negotiable and no SEC regulations. You should be cynical about grandstanding "we crushed it with these all time high prices" type info...its propaganda to get everyone riled up to keep buying.
There are ALWAYS shenanigans with auctions. ALWAYS. Google "sothebys scandal" or "bonhams art scandal" etc etc. lots of meat on the bone for auction houses and as the seinfeld speedster lawsuit thing shows recently a lot of people are interested in separating themselves or 'selling the big one' and that drives the market or auctioneer to engineer compromises into their individual deals. Its very fluid, very negotiable and no SEC regulations. You should be cynical about grandstanding "we crushed it with these all time high prices" type info...its propaganda to get everyone riled up to keep buying.
I know of a guy who listed his car no reserve
Car wasn't getting what he wanted and he bid on the car to get it back
Eating auction fees
Two sides to every hammer strike