3 reasons why a choose a Manual over a PDK
03-29-2017, 01:14 AM
#91
Rennlist Member
The nice thing about Rennlist is the lack of political nonsense. There is no need for this type of PC SJW storm trooper virtue signaling on a Porsche enthusiast site.
The comments you found so offensive appear to be the truthful recounting of a moderately humorous exchange between a husband and wife. But I guess to some people, the truth and facts are not important if they don't lend themselves to a PC narrative. Afaic, There is certainly no shame in not driving stick. My wife doesn't drive a stick either. I tried teaching her several years ago but she wasn't into it. So what? What does that matter? Does that fact offend you? Does that fact reflect on the ability of Sabine Schmitz, Danica Patrick or the many other phenomenal pro female drivers?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponents of women's rights. But I reserve my outrage to horrible tragedies that have been allowed to occur against women in places like Rotherham England, Malmo, Sweden, and Cologne Germany.
The comments you found so offensive appear to be the truthful recounting of a moderately humorous exchange between a husband and wife. But I guess to some people, the truth and facts are not important if they don't lend themselves to a PC narrative. Afaic, There is certainly no shame in not driving stick. My wife doesn't drive a stick either. I tried teaching her several years ago but she wasn't into it. So what? What does that matter? Does that fact offend you? Does that fact reflect on the ability of Sabine Schmitz, Danica Patrick or the many other phenomenal pro female drivers?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponents of women's rights. But I reserve my outrage to horrible tragedies that have been allowed to occur against women in places like Rotherham England, Malmo, Sweden, and Cologne Germany.
03-29-2017, 02:42 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
Food for thought: For those that think PDK/DCT makes a car boring, isn't that a knock to the car itself? I'm not sure many of us would drive a 918 and think it was boring because it's missing a manual.
Someone mentioned earlier that PDK/DCT vs. MT likely has to due more with which best suits the car versus remaining in only one camp. Perhaps the current 718 Cayman S, for instance, is right in that 50/50 zone, hence potentially making the choice between the two a bit difficult. But to say that PDK would instantly make the car boring may point to the overall car being a bit stale without that extra level of engagement.
Someone mentioned earlier that PDK/DCT vs. MT likely has to due more with which best suits the car versus remaining in only one camp. Perhaps the current 718 Cayman S, for instance, is right in that 50/50 zone, hence potentially making the choice between the two a bit difficult. But to say that PDK would instantly make the car boring may point to the overall car being a bit stale without that extra level of engagement.
03-29-2017, 03:51 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
Food for thought: For those that think PDK/DCT makes a car boring, isn't that a knock to the car itself? I'm not sure many of us would drive a 918 and think it was boring because it's missing a manual.
Someone mentioned earlier that PDK/DCT vs. MT likely has to due more with which best suits the car versus remaining in only one camp. Perhaps the current 718 Cayman S, for instance, is right in that 50/50 zone, hence potentially making the choice between the two a bit difficult. But to say that PDK would instantly make the car boring may point to the overall car being a bit stale without that extra level of engagement.
Someone mentioned earlier that PDK/DCT vs. MT likely has to due more with which best suits the car versus remaining in only one camp. Perhaps the current 718 Cayman S, for instance, is right in that 50/50 zone, hence potentially making the choice between the two a bit difficult. But to say that PDK would instantly make the car boring may point to the overall car being a bit stale without that extra level of engagement.
You bring up a good point with the 918 or an original 718. I would drive either one of those cars in a heart beat with no attention of PDK or Manual. Both would have incredible experiences and this, on a lesser note, is what I am finding switching between my 981 PDK and my 993 MT. SO MUCH FUN!
03-29-2017, 07:04 PM
#96
The nice thing about Rennlist is the lack of political nonsense. There is no need for this type of PC SJW storm trooper virtue signaling on a Porsche enthusiast site.
The comments you found so offensive appear to be the truthful recounting of a moderately humorous exchange between a husband and wife. But I guess to some people, the truth and facts are not important if they don't lend themselves to a PC narrative. Afaic, There is certainly no shame in not driving stick. My wife doesn't drive a stick either. I tried teaching her several years ago but she wasn't into it. So what? What does that matter? Does that fact offend you? Does that fact reflect on the ability of Sabine Schmitz, Danica Patrick or the many other phenomenal pro female drivers?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponents of women's rights. But I reserve my outrage to horrible tragedies that have been allowed to occur against women in places like Rotherham England, Malmo, Sweden, and Cologne Germany.
The comments you found so offensive appear to be the truthful recounting of a moderately humorous exchange between a husband and wife. But I guess to some people, the truth and facts are not important if they don't lend themselves to a PC narrative. Afaic, There is certainly no shame in not driving stick. My wife doesn't drive a stick either. I tried teaching her several years ago but she wasn't into it. So what? What does that matter? Does that fact offend you? Does that fact reflect on the ability of Sabine Schmitz, Danica Patrick or the many other phenomenal pro female drivers?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponents of women's rights. But I reserve my outrage to horrible tragedies that have been allowed to occur against women in places like Rotherham England, Malmo, Sweden, and Cologne Germany.
I'm a dude and can't drive a stick. Take flak from my wife that can drive a stick, as well as most other people I know. Do I get offended? Nope.
I dream of a day when PC movement dies and we all go back to worrying about more important things
03-30-2017, 01:13 AM
#97
^^^ The facts speak for themselves - whether you like it or not, there are very few women on this site.
There are good reasons for this. Its not about being offended or political correctness - its about offering an inclusive environment. Rennlist doesn't offer that type of environment for women, if it did you would see many more on here.
The PDK Vs. Manual debate is almost a metaphor for this e.g. a number (but not all) of the guys that push the manual line invariably assume that (a) PDK owners cant drive stick (b) don't get the same level of engagement (c) want to cut quicker laptimes e.g. "be a F1 driver"
The reality is you have to separate fact from inference, objectivity from subjectivity. If something is purely subjective e.g. I feel that a manual is more engaging, thats merely a personal view - nothing will change that view.
The objective view often stated by many PDK owners is the PDK is technically superior, adds significant performance benefits as well improvements to fuel economy and emissions - this is proven and documented (by the manufacturer and many others).
Which neatly brings me back to women, the subjective view appears to be there is little to offend. The objective test - the lack of women on this site (and many car sites) relative to club participation rates indicates the opposite. Heres a simple test, type the following in to Google "women of rennlist" - have a look at the results.
As a friend of ours put it after a few glasses of red "as a woman you get tired of the barking, braying, mamils (middle aged men in lycra) that you find throughout the professions" (shes a Partner in a major international law firm).
So Gentlemen, back to the unresolvable PDK Vs Manual debate
There are good reasons for this. Its not about being offended or political correctness - its about offering an inclusive environment. Rennlist doesn't offer that type of environment for women, if it did you would see many more on here.
The PDK Vs. Manual debate is almost a metaphor for this e.g. a number (but not all) of the guys that push the manual line invariably assume that (a) PDK owners cant drive stick (b) don't get the same level of engagement (c) want to cut quicker laptimes e.g. "be a F1 driver"
The reality is you have to separate fact from inference, objectivity from subjectivity. If something is purely subjective e.g. I feel that a manual is more engaging, thats merely a personal view - nothing will change that view.
The objective view often stated by many PDK owners is the PDK is technically superior, adds significant performance benefits as well improvements to fuel economy and emissions - this is proven and documented (by the manufacturer and many others).
Which neatly brings me back to women, the subjective view appears to be there is little to offend. The objective test - the lack of women on this site (and many car sites) relative to club participation rates indicates the opposite. Heres a simple test, type the following in to Google "women of rennlist" - have a look at the results.
As a friend of ours put it after a few glasses of red "as a woman you get tired of the barking, braying, mamils (middle aged men in lycra) that you find throughout the professions" (shes a Partner in a major international law firm).
So Gentlemen, back to the unresolvable PDK Vs Manual debate
Last edited by randr; 03-30-2017 at 01:33 AM.
03-30-2017, 10:02 AM
#98
Rennlist Member
I don't mean to be contrary or antagonistic but by way of comparison I don't think you'll see alot of men on forum sites traditionaly frequented by women, E.g. a wedding site. It's not that this a bad thng, it's just that there still exists in society seperations of interests by gender. The bottom line? Who cares? Half the people who are interested in Porsches or PDKs or MTs could be women but I wouldn't know nor care!
My wife doesn't have any interest in cars but that's not because she is a woman. It's because she doesn't have any interest in cars. Just like I do not have a big interest in gardening. But I love her to bits!
So let's not morph a good interest site into a bastion for gender equality. As previous people have posted, there are far bigger world issues to tackle in the area of gender equality than this lowly Porsche forum!
My wife doesn't have any interest in cars but that's not because she is a woman. It's because she doesn't have any interest in cars. Just like I do not have a big interest in gardening. But I love her to bits!
So let's not morph a good interest site into a bastion for gender equality. As previous people have posted, there are far bigger world issues to tackle in the area of gender equality than this lowly Porsche forum!
03-31-2017, 03:17 AM
#99
Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I've read several of your Porsche related posts and find them for the most part insightful and enjoyable to read. But this whole inclusive / diverse thing strikes a huge nerve with me.
Using terms like inclusiveness in this context is highly PC and that's where it starts, then comes safe spaces, micro-aggressions, virtue signaling and cultural/ethnic/gender shaming and flat out censorship. Seriously, making Rennlist more inclusive, what would that even look like? Censoring the members here, requiring mandatory sensitivity training before posting? I don't think you're talking about changing the font and background color
Bottom line, we don't need that here. While I would welcome more women on the forum I certainly don't want to see Rennlist turn into some anesthetized version of itself. I sincerely hope you don't either.
It is true that Rennlist is mostly male. That's a fact. Suggesting Rennlist would have more women if it was more "iinclusive" is not a fact but a speculative factless assumption at best. I would be willing to bet that the demographics for Rennlist matches pretty closely to the demographics of the Porsche sports car enthusiast crowd. Even the PCA is majority male Despite a broad range of events that should appeal to both sexes equally.
As a guitar player, I've met a fair share of female guitarists and none of them joined the guitar or gear forums I frequent which are again primarily male. The truth of the matter is that men and women are different. Differences that should be celebrated rather than erased in some engineered gender neutral dystopia were the unique male and female perspectives and sensitivities are neutered. We should also be willing to laugh at ourselves, as adults, our skin should've thickened a little. Of course if we see something we don't like, speak up. Offer a differing view without deligitimizing or silencing viewpoints that are disagreeable or subjectively offensive.
I applauded you when you said your wife is a kick *** driver. That was a great response. You reminded folks on this forum that women can row gears with the best of them. However, shaming a fellow forumite for his post that is neither sexually degrading or objectifying to women and then suggesting that Rennlist is not inclusive is pretty much PC horrific.
Using terms like inclusiveness in this context is highly PC and that's where it starts, then comes safe spaces, micro-aggressions, virtue signaling and cultural/ethnic/gender shaming and flat out censorship. Seriously, making Rennlist more inclusive, what would that even look like? Censoring the members here, requiring mandatory sensitivity training before posting? I don't think you're talking about changing the font and background color
Bottom line, we don't need that here. While I would welcome more women on the forum I certainly don't want to see Rennlist turn into some anesthetized version of itself. I sincerely hope you don't either.
It is true that Rennlist is mostly male. That's a fact. Suggesting Rennlist would have more women if it was more "iinclusive" is not a fact but a speculative factless assumption at best. I would be willing to bet that the demographics for Rennlist matches pretty closely to the demographics of the Porsche sports car enthusiast crowd. Even the PCA is majority male Despite a broad range of events that should appeal to both sexes equally.
As a guitar player, I've met a fair share of female guitarists and none of them joined the guitar or gear forums I frequent which are again primarily male. The truth of the matter is that men and women are different. Differences that should be celebrated rather than erased in some engineered gender neutral dystopia were the unique male and female perspectives and sensitivities are neutered. We should also be willing to laugh at ourselves, as adults, our skin should've thickened a little. Of course if we see something we don't like, speak up. Offer a differing view without deligitimizing or silencing viewpoints that are disagreeable or subjectively offensive.
I applauded you when you said your wife is a kick *** driver. That was a great response. You reminded folks on this forum that women can row gears with the best of them. However, shaming a fellow forumite for his post that is neither sexually degrading or objectifying to women and then suggesting that Rennlist is not inclusive is pretty much PC horrific.
^^^ The facts speak for themselves - whether you like it or not, there are very few women on this site.
There are good reasons for this. Its not about being offended or political correctness - its about offering an inclusive environment. Rennlist doesn't offer that type of environment for women, if it did you would see many more on here.
The PDK Vs. Manual debate is almost a metaphor for this e.g. a number (but not all) of the guys that push the manual line invariably assume that (a) PDK owners cant drive stick (b) don't get the same level of engagement (c) want to cut quicker laptimes e.g. "be a F1 driver"
The reality is you have to separate fact from inference, objectivity from subjectivity. If something is purely subjective e.g. I feel that a manual is more engaging, thats merely a personal view - nothing will change that view.
The objective view often stated by many PDK owners is the PDK is technically superior, adds significant performance benefits as well improvements to fuel economy and emissions - this is proven and documented (by the manufacturer and many others).
Which neatly brings me back to women, the subjective view appears to be there is little to offend. The objective test - the lack of women on this site (and many car sites) relative to club participation rates indicates the opposite. Heres a simple test, type the following in to Google "women of rennlist" - have a look at the results.
As a friend of ours put it after a few glasses of red "as a woman you get tired of the barking, braying, mamils (middle aged men in lycra) that you find throughout the professions" (shes a Partner in a major international law firm).
So Gentlemen, back to the unresolvable PDK Vs Manual debate
There are good reasons for this. Its not about being offended or political correctness - its about offering an inclusive environment. Rennlist doesn't offer that type of environment for women, if it did you would see many more on here.
The PDK Vs. Manual debate is almost a metaphor for this e.g. a number (but not all) of the guys that push the manual line invariably assume that (a) PDK owners cant drive stick (b) don't get the same level of engagement (c) want to cut quicker laptimes e.g. "be a F1 driver"
The reality is you have to separate fact from inference, objectivity from subjectivity. If something is purely subjective e.g. I feel that a manual is more engaging, thats merely a personal view - nothing will change that view.
The objective view often stated by many PDK owners is the PDK is technically superior, adds significant performance benefits as well improvements to fuel economy and emissions - this is proven and documented (by the manufacturer and many others).
Which neatly brings me back to women, the subjective view appears to be there is little to offend. The objective test - the lack of women on this site (and many car sites) relative to club participation rates indicates the opposite. Heres a simple test, type the following in to Google "women of rennlist" - have a look at the results.
As a friend of ours put it after a few glasses of red "as a woman you get tired of the barking, braying, mamils (middle aged men in lycra) that you find throughout the professions" (shes a Partner in a major international law firm).
So Gentlemen, back to the unresolvable PDK Vs Manual debate
03-31-2017, 09:45 AM
#102
Let's go completely retro, there must be a way to jam a Holley onto these engines, screw direct injection they ruined purist Porsche cars with that new fangled witchcraft. And while we are at it get rid of these radiators and the rest of the cooling system too, #youmodernizedmyPorsche
03-31-2017, 01:00 PM
#104
I agree many folks try to find offense with almost anything. If you want censorship, go to Planet-9 and see how you like it
. And also check how many women post (maybe one or two every blue moon).
. And also check how many women post (maybe one or two every blue moon).
03-31-2017, 01:14 PM
#105
Three Wheelin'
Well, we need to be bit realistic in our expectations, even when they are just wish lists! Here are just two things I really want the most: Low gearing (at least in first three) and hydraulic steering! While they are at it, make the throw shorter as well. Imagine how much more fun Boxster and Cayman would be, rowing through gears all the way to redline at every possible opportunity while enjoying a wailing flat-6 (sorry, 718 fellas)!