mbslrm

Porsche should really consider putting paddles in. They just make so much more sens.

flatspin

Just curious mooty; why are tracked Caymans having PS failure issues? Is the crank pully too large for sustained high-rpm use (i.e. spinning the pump too fast)? Also you said the PS racks were replaced, did you mean the PS pumps?

mooty

yes, i was told the crank pulley was too big for track use. some cars eventually used smaller pulleys (aftermkt) and some of those still had prob.

on the otherhand, boxster with smaller pulley are fine and almost all the tracked cay s on east coast are fine too?

at first i replaced PS pump. the later after few PS pump replacement we saw damage on rack. dealer replaced everything related to PS on their dime, great service. i still love the cay s. i think eventually they will fix all the problems. the 911 had 40+ years head start. it too had prob back when...

Thundertub

So rather than just mouthing off about PDK, I went over to Brumos Porsche today and drove a brand new 2009 Cayman S with PDK and PASM Sport (They just got 4 this week). I told Bill Bianco, the salesman, that I did not need any 0-60 screaming starts or highway runs. I just wanted to drive around in traffic. I told him I have had plenty of Cayman S G-force experience at Roebling Road with one of my students. I didn't need to be shown any of that. I just wanted to drive, experience, learn about the PDK. And that is what we did.
To all PDK nay-sayers and manual shift devotoees I say HUMBUG!
It was totally freaking AWESOME to drive that car. We never exceeded 45 MPH and the transmission was absolutely seemless from 1st to 7th. Up shifts were invisible. Downshifts, both induced and automatic, came with a slightly audible engine blip and shift that I would NEVER be able to replicate no matter how hard I tried. And I am VERY good at matching revs and double-clutching down.

So, did I order? Nope. Like many of you, it will still be 4 more months before I know for sure whether my position has been retained. But I am ready to pull the trigger when that happens.
2010 Cayman S, PDK, PASM Sport, Sport Chrono (I learned today why I need it), Sport muffler, sport seats, and a couple other goodies. No stereo upgrade or ANY of that other audio/visual/navigation crap. All the music and entertainment I need is right behind my seat, and at my fingetips. I don't want any distractions or calls in or out when I am "in the office." The cockpit of my Porsche is MY place.

PS My camera and my cellphone also have that same understanding about who does what and when. And BOTH stand down when I am driving.

flatspin

Thanks (and OUCH!) I was wondering about that.

flatspin

Hey Thunder. You didn't think the PDK detracted from the driving experience? I just can't imagine having a sports car with an automatic (lets call PDK an automatic, thats what it is, albeit a very sophisticated one) tranny. I understand the advantages that advancing technology has on performance, and that a car with PDK will probably be faster than one without it; but didn't you find it less involving?

Thundertub

Actually, you still shift if you want to, when you want to, if you want to. Same dynamics apply when you are in the manual and/or sport modes. I still needed to decided if and when I wanted to upshift or downshift. My right foot stayed on the gas pedal, my hands stayed on the steering wheel. My right thumb and forefinger did what my entire left leg and right arm were doing before, and I didn't worry about double clutching, revs, shifting through the gates...yada yada yada. In other words I was MORE engaged in the driving experience and "line" (in this case the traffic) and way less distracted by muscle coordination issues. I KNOW I will be faster at the track because I will have fewer distractions with PDK and no balk and hesitation like Tiptronic (driven plenty but never owned one)
I see myself at Roebling running down the straights and diving deeper and harder into the turns because I no longer have to become distracted by the gear shifting process.
In the last 20 years I have done over 60 PCA track events, Porsche Driving Experience 2-day and Masters, Skip Barber 3-day Racing School (plus several other Skip Barber performance driving schools) two seasons in Barber Dodge, and am a PCA National Instructor. I have run at over a dozen different tracks east of the Mississippi. Am I Hurley Haywaood. Nope (also have 4 HH schools and his Masters course under my belt). But I do have plenty of lifetime experience with manual shifting. In the 20 years before that I was an avid autocrosser in Porsches. In the 5 years before that, I was a NHRA drag racer.
Like Kevinr above, I also had a student with a Audi TT with DSG and I have NEVER forgotten that experience and how magic that transmission was at the track. Now we have one in the Porsches, and I am ready to relegate my left leg and foot to occasional left foot braking (helpful at autocrosses).
I'm fully involved in the 21st Century, and the engineering that goes with it. I have owned 16 Porsches since 1972, the last 4 of which have been 996's. All 16 where sticks. I was a "purest" like most others.
But I don't drive in vintage races, and I don't drive vintage cars. The Cayman with PDK is what a 904 would be if it was made today.
I will still do track events with my 6-speed 996 until A: I find out my job is secure for a couple more years, and B: if A, then until my Cayman S with PDK arrives.

P.S. Keeping your left foot on the deadpedal is a great way to brace if you don't have race harnesses installed. Left foot braking keeps both feet in action.

PPS. "Paddles" vs "buttons" is just using different fingers. And Porsches' choice of operation is way easier since you don't have to remember which paddle does what.

flatspin

"shakes head" I think I'd have to pass. I'd probably be slamming the brake by accident, reflexively trying to use a clutch that wasn't there.
But I appreciate the detailed response. Very insightful.

kevinr

Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way.

The Audi with DSG that I drove had paddles -- which were super-easy to operate; but you're right: you do have to keep track of which is up and which is down. Of course, if you drove a car so equipped very regularly, that would quickly become a non-issue, I think.

I wonder if buttons might be a bit more prone to inadvertent triggering -- that is, compared to the paddles?

As I implied in my first post, the thing I like about the DSG is it's Jekyll and Hyde personality. You can tool around town in stop-and-go and let it do all the work -- but whenever you feel like it, you can take explicit control and it will bang off rapid fire shifts much faster than I could ever hope to. I assumed the PDK (being more modern and designed for a more critical consumer) would be even better.

afridi

All the sequential shifters are pull back for up and push for down. Like a motorcycle I suppose.

With paddles Right is up and left is down. Very intuitive also. (Never had a problem in the Maserati I drove).

Even in video games with shifters/pafddles the same principle applies.

It seems silly that Porsche has it backwards from every other car out there. I understand why (they dont want to shock the hell out of steptronic owners) but I wouldnt be surprised that they go the paddles route or sort out the buttons on their next models.

I wonder if the shifter stalk can be programed so it does it the proper way. maybe teh buttons can be disengaged in software.

If that were to be the case i will jump all over the PDK.

otisdog

No PASM Sport on the Cayman (at least in this model year order). PCNA is concerned about how close the Cayman is to the Carrera.

kevinr

FYI, in the Feb 2009 Automobile article on the new Boxster S (p. 31): "When [the shortcomings of buttons] were voiced to R&D boss Wolfgang Durheimer, he voiced that a fix -- optional paddle shifters -- is in the works."

Assuming the Boxster and the Cayman are the same in this regard, it appears the Porsche is planning on giving Boxster/Cayman buyers a choice.

How can you not like that?

Thundertub

Jeez, here we go again: Beta Max or VHS? Macintosh or Windows PC? Buttons or paddles? And why does the crap always seem to prevail?

Over on PlanetPorsche.net (previously known as CaymanClub.net) they are arguing over whether LSD is desireable for a new Cayman owner who doesn't go to the track.The first half dozen responses are all "...at the track...". It's like they didn't even read the question. It wasn't until page three that somebody else besides me made a simple observation and finally got the issue back on track. The answer was very simple for the poster since in the upper right hand corner of his first post is a Canadian flag. Duh! The car is a daily driver in snow and ice most of the year! LSD just might be a nice thing for him whether he goes to the track or not.

And PDK really works. If you want to shift for yourself 24/7, by all means do so. I for one, am way over that need and that is why I think it is important for folks to know that if you want the best thing in tranny's going these days, and your ego won't be crushed by letting techology do it for you, then PDK is very much a worthwhile consideration.
Sure opens the door to a wider range of potential buyers when it comes time to sell...

kevinr

Maybe my post wasn't as well edited as I intended. Sorry about that.

I wasn't suggesting to foster an argument about buttons v. paddles -- why argue about something that mostly comes down to a personal preference?

As for the PDK itself: I love the concept -- and pretty much for all of the reasons you stated. If I were shopping tomorrow, PDK would be at the top of my list, regardless of buttons, paddles or whatever. But what I think it is even cooler still, is that a buyer can choose whichever transmission he or she prefers.

The point that I was trying to make with the Porsche exec comment was not that buttons or paddles are better, but rather that Porsche seemed to be planning even more customer choice -- not just manual v. PDK, but also customization of shift actuators. Hence my summary "how can you not like that?" It appears that, real soon now, you can have pretty much any level of control you want, including (at least with the PDK) the interface as to how you express that control.


PS:

Speaking purely theoretically, I think the buttons v. paddles v. shift levers is an interesting human factors discussion, and one that I'd bet a good chunk of change was argued for many hours by Porsche interior designers, engineers and testers. However that's probably a topic of a different thread, and perhaps even a different forum.

Thundertub

kevinr,
My rant above may have been equally misdirected and misunderstood. Choices are a good thing. Look at the large number of seat choices you can pick from on the Porsche website. Even the Cayenne...

I worry that if more than one choice for the automatic becomes available, folks will fall back into their old ways and old thinking... And thus the "market" rather than technical logic will prevail. I agree with you completely that the lights were on late into the night at Weissach over what arrangement to use for the shift mechanism of the PDK. I have never believed that Porsche was a huge risk taker. They do things after lots of research and testing.
But just like the new museum, radical changes and bold moves are made. But made with conviction.
I am not resistant to change. I am resistant to unnecessary change (Detroit annual model changes for example). Change that promotes new thinking and new ideas is how we make progress. If not for change, we would still be entertaining ourselves solely with Marconi's.